Wet BP burn the fastest!

[DoodieSmoothie]

Was done writing everything then i clicked out of the window -.-

 

Fast explanation; I've tried to find a new way to make BP burn the fastest since i don't have ballmill, only mortar and pestle. Water seems to bind KNO3 and sulfur to charcoal really well, and it's almost (better) than billmilled. Now, i did grind it down to meal powder first, but i don't think this is a must, only for charcoal since kno3 and sulfur is soluble with water, but the mixing will be easier since water makes mixing it harder. Then i wet the mortar before i added 1g BP

 

Here is a slow-mo test. Captured with my GoPro, 240 FPS, 12% speed.

The first BP is dry meal powder, the second is with water

https://youtu.be/lyq9vfJ6taA

 

Normal speed:

https://youtu.be/nNDcr488rH4

 

The BP should be damp, not completely wet.

 

I also wanted to add: Is there a possibility that this is the real "natural" way of making black powder? This works really well if stored in airtight containers, but as soon as water starts to evaporate, KNO3 will recrystallize and form bigger crystals than what it was before you added the water.

Edited April 7, 2020 by DoodieSmoothie

[kingkama]

Not you are wrong, Sulphur is soluble in toluene and not in water, damp bp is not faster, every % of moisture disturb the overall burn rate. Sometimes is useful thinking outside the Schemes, but is also useful think that if all world do thing in a way, must be some reasons back that our actual comprehension can't see. If you like to do bp manually, build a wood mallet and use it for Beat the bp inside the mortar damped with a 3% of water, 1 minute a grams granulated without binder or max 1% of dextrine and you get a usefull bp, 15% of the shell weight made the trick. Before a ball mill i did in this way and worked fine until i find a Washing machine mOtor, some Bearings a wood pulley 2 Metal rods, in this forum i found a tool to calculate all data you need for the building so it's up to you Edited April 7, 2020 by kingkama

[DoodieSmoothie]

I just thought that maybe water was a old traditional way to bind the ingredients, but ball milled BP makes you able to store it dry

Water does slow down the burn rate, but not all amount. A very small amount seem to make it faster, but that is maybe because KNO3 is able to suck up moisture? A whole droplet of water is too much for 1g. You need to have VERY little in order to make it work.

I would make a ball mill, but i'm not going to make BP anymore after i'm out of KNO3, so i'll just grind the kilo i have xD It's a lot of work but it works.

 

Do you know how dextrin affects black powder? What happens if i grind dextrin+water and black powder?

[stix]

I've found that a small amount of moisture DOES speed up the burn rate. Unfortunately it doesn't last as the powder dries out, as suggested.

[kingkama]

Obviously i know this is the way powder was made for centuries, so what's the problem be wrong is the start of be rigth. If you dont like an answer newer make question. Dextrin must to be added when ball mill or grinding or beat with mallet because it mix well. I be a pro piro for while, i don't like to talk about because I don't like to brag, so i knows all processes from bp making to multibreak 8 inch shells cylinders and sphere up to 12", color mix and effect making, so be polite with people you dont know. Edited April 7, 2020 by kingkama

[SeaMonkey]

For those who are new to Black Powder, Pyro Rebel has made

several videos:

 

How I make fast Black Powder

 

How to granulate Black Powder

 

How to make Dextrin

 

Wetting the powder only enough to granulate it is really essential.

 

Many wet the raw powder with Rubbing Alcohol rather than pure water.

 

Some compress the powder before granulation.

 

The process of milling powder with a wooden mallet is very old. In

America Stamp Mills used such a process. Stamps were made

from the Hornbeam Tree and used to pulverize the Black

Powder with a mechanical system that raised the stamp and

dropped it into a stone receptacle containing the mix. It was

"stamped" by repeatedly raising and dropping the stamp until the

ingredients were well incorporated and pulverized in preparation

for pressing and granulating.

Edited April 8, 2020 by SeaMonkey

[hubsad00]

What happens if i grind dextrin+water and black powder?

Don't do that. Dextrin with water create something like glue, which it after dries becomes tough.

 

When will you ground powder (dry) add some dextrin (I prefer 4g on 100g BP) mix thoroughly add water (I add with some alcohol with water) and granules through a sieve, next drying.

 

Also, I recommended proportions 78,3/13,4/8,3 because oxidation indicate this and with my test is faster than standard.

 

Oxidation black powder:

 

6 KNO 3 + C 7 H 4 O + 2 S → K 2 CO 3 + K 2 SO 4 + K 2 S + 4 CO 2 + 2 CO + 2 H 2 O + 3 N 2

 

if you have any Questions, write

 

PS: I don't ken English well and in advance sorry for any mistakes ;-)

[stix]

Slightly moist and fluffy BP does burn faster than when dry. It's true, and more dangerous to handle in that state. In my limited experience.

Edited April 10, 2020 by stix

[BetICouldMake1]

Dextrin is used in black powder to produce durable grains rather than the traditional method of pucking and corning. Adding dextrin slows the burn rate. Around 4-5% dextrin is typically used as a binder, but you can get away with using less for your BP to minimize the affect on burn rate.

[SharkWhisperer]

Dextrin is used in black powder to produce durable grains rather than the traditional method of pucking and corning. Adding dextrin slows the burn rate. Around 4-5% dextrin is typically used as a binder, but you can get away with using less for your BP to minimize the affect on burn rate.

I get sufficiently hard granules for lift/burst using 2% dextrin; wet-granuating; no puck/corning. Gotta make sure your dex isn't crap and gotta make sure you get it sufficiently wet/activated; warm water is faster than cold. 4-5%? Not even in stars that I want hard so as not to blow blind; 3% max in that case...

[kingkama]

Shark said well, 1.5 or 2% dextrin is mandatory to obtain a good powder that will endure for years if ones don't want to press pucks. Again 2 or 3 % of water not render bp liquid but slightly wet so dextrin will not activate. For granulation you need to use at least the 20% of water (cold) to obtain a good density.

To hubsad your proportions can be good for shortbore firearms bp made up from balsa or pawlownia charcoal, for fireworks is too much powerful and cold, best is PGI standard if willow or white pine charcoal is used. For me the best is French army standard with wine charcoal. So the idea is no recipe is best it will depend from what you need from materials you have.

Edited April 11, 2020 by kingkama

[SharkWhisperer]

Shark said well, 1.5 or 2% dextrin is mandatory to obtain a good powder that will endure for years if ones don't want to press pucks. Again 2 or 3 % of water not render bp liquid but slightly wet so dextrin will not activate. For granulation you need to use at least the 20% of water (cold) to obtain a good density.

To hubsad your proportions can be good for shortbore firearms bp made up from balsa or pawlownia charcoal, for fireworks is too much powerful and cold, best is PGI standard if willow or white pine charcoal is used. For me the best is French army standard with wine charcoal. So the idea is no recipe is best it will depend from what you need from materials you have.

Regarding water temperature, it's a mixed bag. I suggest using warm water to rapidly activate dextrin, but that runs the risk of dissolving more potassium nitrate (and it's hard to keep the mix warm after addition, but it does make a difference), which, if you do not dry your granules quickly, risks large nitrate crystal formation that could theoretically affect/slow your BP. As King mentioned, this is not a consideration if you use cold water (less nitrate dissolved), but slower dextrin activation. Personally, I haven't noticed a difference between hot and cold water addition. I get it good n play-doh wet, massage it like a Bangkok hooker baker for about 5 minutes to get good integration, and dry it asap, in the sun or in a box. Fast drying is key. Water temp, in my experience, less so. I suggested warm water because it will get the dextrin gummy faster, but that final/overall benefit might be negligible, in terms of both granule durability and powder burn speed. Some things remain empirical... Do what works for you. But definitely 2-3% water will NOT sufficiently activate your dextrin for use as a binder.

Edited April 12, 2020 by SharkWhisperer

[kingkama]

Regarding water temperature, it's a mixed bag. I suggest using warm water to rapidly activate dextrin, but that runs the risk of dissolving more potassium nitrate (and it's hard to keep the mix warm after addition, but it does make a difference), which, if you do not dry your granules quickly, risks large nitrate crystal formation that could theoretically affect/slow your BP. As King mentioned, this is not a consideration if you use cold water (less nitrate dissolved), but slower dextrin activation. Personally, I haven't noticed a difference between hot and cold water addition. I get it good n play-doh wet, massage it like a Bangkok hooker baker for about 5 minutes to get good integration, and dry it asap, in the sun or in a box. Fast drying is key. Water temp, in my experience, less so. I suggested warm water because it will get the dextrin gummy faster, but that final/overall benefit might be negligible, in terms of both granule durability and powder burn speed. Some things remain empirical... Do what works for you. But definitely 2-3% water will NOT sufficiently activate your dextrin for use as a binder.

It is a good way of made up BP, in summer I use plain water or just a20% of ethanol, in winter 20% of water in acetone, super fast dry but grain can be crumbly if you add too less water or the moisture in air too less to be captured from the aceton evaporation/condensation.

[DoodieSmoothie]

I must say that i think some leftovers from the flash on the paper i used was in the wet black powder, that's maybe why it burned so fast, but i have tested this several times and damp BP is actually very fast and "flash powder"-like when doing burn test.