Whistle phlegmatizer slows too much

[dangerousamateur]

I bet this has been been covered here more than one time but somehow I cant find the old threads.

 

Anyway. We're supposed to stay alone these days, so I decided to make some whistle and do some experimentation.

 

Because my fuel fails to be hot enough to pop my rockets and I could use some extra power:

 

How do you feel about reducing the amount of phlegmatizer? Considering safety.

Right now I use 3,5% mineral oil, but i tend towards 2%.

 

 

Maybe I should drop that mineral oil and use something else. But what?

Solid paraffine, vaseline?

 

I dont mind the greater effort for a melting process. I just want hotter fuel.

There are other things that have an influence but right know lets just talk about the phlegmatizer.

 

[justvisiting]

It has been claimed that liquid paraffin oil (lamp oil) is the phlegmatizer that has the least effect on the speed of whistle. I haven't tried it yet though. The military whistle formula that can be found (somewhere) on this site contains no phlegmatizer. Chinese KHP-based whistles don't seem to have any phlegmatizer either. I've used Vaseline, and paraffin wax. I like the wax better for handling. Steve Laduke's #2 whistle is my go-to whistle for power. It's:

76- potassium perchlorate

23- sodium salicylate

1- red iron oxide

2.5- Vaseline (I use wax at the same amount)

 

Ben Smith recommends large amounts of phlegmatizer, but I would never make whistle with more than 2 1/2%, no matter which phlegmatizer I used.

[Mumbles]

Have you considered the particle size of your components? Generally, it's the fuel that's harder to grind or get fine enough. I'm not sure what, or if any, catalyst you're using, but red iron oxide makes any clumps or granules stand out the best in my experience. Milling it into the perchlorate will pretty much ensure any particles you're seeing are from the fuel. Milling the perc, while usually already quite fine particles, may also offer at least modest improvement as well.

[dangerousamateur]

I'm quite sure my components are fine. Everything is dust, no lumps. I'm using Oxychloride. I'm not saying it is slow. It screams like hell, and if you use it with a long rocket tool it works very well.

I just want MORE power, thats all.

 

 

But please stick to the phlegmatizers.

 

I could lower the mineral oil to 2%

Go for paraffine wax, 2%

Go for some other kind of wax, stearine, bees wax, or something else?

[BetICouldMake1]

You can lower the phlegmatizer to 2% without issue. I use 2% paraffin wax dissolved in white gas for my sali whistle. Red Iron Oxide is the preferred catalyst for sali whistle. It's also much cheaper than copper oxychloride and readily available from pottery supply stores. If you're just looking for more power that's where I'd start.

[justvisiting]

I don't see how the forum can be of help in this situation. We are allowed to consider only one (unquantified) aspect of a problem, starved of information, and expected to assist.

Copper oxychloride is just about the hottest catalyst you can use. We don't know the formula, the fuel, the particle size of the components, or the preparation method. Actually, I think it might even be inappropriate to advise someone on such a powerful mixture without knowing anything about the mixture, except what phlegmatizer is used. Just one guy's opinion, for what it's worth.

 

EDIT: Sorry, don't mean to offend. But, if whistle is made with copper oxychloride and can be pressed on a long spindle and has low power, with no complaints about CATO, I'd say there's something wrong with the whistle, beyond the phlegmatizer.

Edited April 2, 2020 by justvisiting

[dangerousamateur]

 

if whistle is made with copper oxychloride and can be pressed on a long spindle and has low power, with no complaints about CATO, I'd say there's something wrong with the whistle, beyond the phlegmatizer.

I should say that it's not a BP spindle, more like universal or LWS.

And the power is OK. But I like more.

This is about fine tuning.

[justvisiting]

Fine tuning what? Benz whistle? Sali whistle? KHP? What ratios? What does "OK" mean?

[Jimjimboom]

Im only new to this and i can see where your coming from! Any advice you give could be dangerous if you dont know what your attempting to offer advice on! I live in australia, i cant easily get percloride and i know how dangerous it can be! Anyone know where i can get it in australia? I can make it but it is tedious! Well the way i have made it is tedious!

[dangerousamateur]

 

Fine tuning what? Benz whistle? Sali whistle? KHP? What ratios? What does "OK" mean?

 

Read carefully. I only wanted to discuss the influence of the phlegmatizer on the burn rate. Anything else should be disregarded in this thread.

I take it for granted that this influence is similar with all kinds of mixtures.

Edited April 8, 2020 by dangerousamateur

[BetICouldMake1]

Well since the point of a phlegmatizer is to desensitize a composition, and you are asking how one can safely reduce the level of phlegmatizer, without knowing the baseline sensitivity (aka WHAT COMP YOU'RE USING) it's impossible to answer your question.

[dangerousamateur]

Well - Whistle...

 

Right now potassium benzoate with oxychloride.

 

76 potassium perchlorate

23 potassium benzoate

1 Oxichloride

3,5 mineral oil

 

I also have salicylate but i shy from the milling effort.

[Jimjimboom]

Ok guys so i attempted to make a small batch of whistle comp, when i say small i mean 20g approx, as it is kinda scary stuff when you have to teach yourself! It burns fast as but dosent whistle! I used sodium silicate as fuel iron oxide and vasaline! Any ideas guys? Is it possible the comp is too hot? I dont know if i should try a different fuel or what! Any advice is much appreciated

[BetICouldMake1]

I assume you mean sodium salicylate, right? More details would help. What ratios did you use and how did you mix it? How fine were your chems? Was the salicylate dry?

 

How did you test it? Unconfined whistle mix will sometimes chirp when burned, but it needs to be pressed into a tube with some hollow space behind the grain for it to whistle.

[Twesla]

Hello everyone, this will be my first post. Ive been lurking quite a while, but I have a related question. Ive just begun to transition over to whistle mix, and Ive begun to have a perplexing issue. My first batch was Benny whistle in the ratios 65% potassium perchlorate from fireworks cookbook, 33% potassium benzoate (same supplier) 2% red gum and +8% ground perlite, granulated with absolute(ish) ethanol. I pressed this comp into a couple gerbs and the sound was perfect and loud.

 

Next, I tried 76/23/1 oxychloride (homemade) +2.5% hypoallergenic baby oil dissolved in heptane I distilled from starter spray. I began to try pressing rockets, first on an embarrassingly crappy homemade spindle. This resulted in 1 flight and 2 CATO, but they were all silent (minus the whoosh and/or boom. Since then Ive lowered and raised the the fuel/oxy ratio, Ive tried red iron oxide as a catalyst, and Ive even diluted the phlegmatizer by adding more mix, adding solvent, but no oil. Its bizarre to me that the whistle has vanished when Im using the same batch of perchlorate and k benzoate. Could the fragrance in baby oil really have that great an impact?

[NeighborJ]

Stranger things have happened. I tried adding 1% pine tar to my whistle before and it completely killed the sound.

 

I have a suspicion that your home brewed solvent has left something behind in the form of volatile hydrocarbons or the baby oil has a fragrance or additive.

Edited February 13, 2021 by NeighborJ

[ronmoper76]

I never had the to hot of fuel problem. I use the 76/23 benz with oxychloride on my 1lb super black powder spindle and i lift 500 grams easily.sali just wont work for me on anything but a lws setup at 76/23,and my top half of fuel must be toned down like recommended. It just catos everytime over 4 increments on BP spindle and on my 3lb extreme strobe spindle, it blows at 4 increments also. I hate sali for that reason,lo its to damn hot all the time,benny 76/23/oxy works everytime as long as you side fuse it correctly and it lifts like a workhorse for me personally. So what im trying to say is for me personally,sali is useless except for the notable extra power when i use it as a delay,it blows up mostly for me,but benz works on anything,BP,strobe,or homemade spindle as far as i can see,even a crappy one made from a stainless bolt i got at a surplus store.

And it lifts ridiculous weights,high up in the air,i never once thought boy I wonder how i could make this shit faster.....They already take off so fast a cellphone is useless to record because its gone and off the screen before you even realize it,two of my friend nick named them missles,lol there insane as far as i am concerned... Please dont flame me ,i am a amatuer and claim to be nothing else,just sharing my personal experience

Edited February 22, 2021 by ronmoper76