Nitrate or carbonate salts for making flare-torch

[zZz]

Hello everyone , i was gonna buy strontium and barium nitrate for making torch/flare , i've already ordered some aluminium for it , i do have kclo3/kno3 and sulphur too , but i realized that carbonates work the same way , my question is will be any differences between these formulas:

 

Strontium nitrate

Al

 

Strontium carbonate

KClO3 or KNo3

Sugar

Sulphur

Edited February 9, 2020 by zZz

[SharkWhisperer]

Awww, kid, please do some actual reading and ask more focused questions. You're asking kindergarten-level questions that are not a good introduction. And those are not "formulas" that you have provided us.

 

Maybe go to Skylighter's website and look up red or green flare compositions in their collection of articles. Then use the search tool to find related information and discussion on this forum.

 

Do some friggin' basic homework, ffs. And please study and know the multiple life-threatening dangers of KClO₃, especially in mixtures with sulfur and organics like sugar...

 

THEN ask specific and thoughtful questions if you want somebody to respond to you with anything but annoyance.

Edited February 11, 2020 by SharkWhisperer

[zZz]

Boom roasted

[Arthur]

It's very easy to search the web and find all sorts of old formulae that have been superceded on safety and performance grounds, while history is a valuable start point please check that the formulae that you intend to use are modern enough to be safe enough by modern standards.

 

Chlorates are now regarded as hazardous, and when with sulphur the mix is very dangerous. Chlorate with sugar has been a terrorist explosive -it's much too likely to detonate for entertainment fireworks -which is all we deal with here.

[zZz]

It's very easy to search the web and find all sorts of old formulae that have been superceded on safety and performance grounds, while history is a valuable start point please check that the formulae that you intend to use are modern enough to be safe enough by modern standards.

 

Chlorates are now regarded as hazardous, and when with sulphur the mix is very dangerous. Chlorate with sugar has been a terrorist explosive -it's much too likely to detonate for entertainment fireworks -which is all we deal with here.

Well thank you good sir ,for your very informative answer

 

I guess i'll search for some kclo3-sulphur combinations to blow myself up

[SharkWhisperer]

ZZZ hey,

 

Here's a suggestion for you. Take a look at the red Plasma Torch Cutter Fountain project at: https://www.skylighter.com/blogs/how-to-make-fireworks/plasma-cutter-fountain

 

It's an excellent first project that makes an ass-kicking brilliant red torch that blasts fire up to 15-20 feet high, depending on your additives. It burns super hot and is really cool. It is Strontium Nitrate heavy, and includes a few ingredients (4 total) that are not expensive or dangerous and easy to find (magnalium, parlon, and red gum). All of these you can buy easily, at, for example, fireworkscookbook.com. For the magnalium, i use the -60 mesh he sells, not the finer 200-mesh powder the recipe calls for, but either will work well; mine puts out larger sparks. The parlon will teach you the importance of chlorine donors in enhancing color in many compositions. The red gum is a common binder that also acts as a fuel. You can buy tooling, or easily manufacture the wooden tooling shown in the project for cheap. You will learn about making nozzles, a skill critical for making essentially all gerbs and almost all rockets except nozzleless ones. You can buy tubes or make them yourself for cheap. Know that this formula burns super hot and will cook through even thick-walled commercial rocket tubes in some cases, especially if you re-use/reload them after using (don't recommend this; not dangerous, but sidewall burn through wrecks stops the fountain instantly), or if you make them too long. You can make this a real sparky blaster by adding 8-10% extra spherical titanium (i get mine from Phil at ihaveadotcom.com that is quality stuff). Do not, please ram sponge titanium from other sources. It is an excellent first real project that takes advantage of your prior strontium nitrate acquisition, and is a lot of fun.

 

Be careful with barium nitrate until you are a little more appreciative of protective gear and safety considerations--the shit is toxic as hell, but useful.

 

Please stay away from using your KClO₃ for now--too much can go wrong, even with those experienced using it. It does have value in making smoke bombs and in some colored star compositions for aerial shells, but you are nowhere near that level yet. Just leave it stowed away for now.

 

You have KNO₃ and sulfur. Great! Learn to make black powder, BP, the basis of almost everything pyro! Get, or better yet learn to make your own personalized charcoal. Making BP is a basic pyro skill that you need to master, and understand intimately. It's used for almost everything pyro and until you can make reliably decent BP your pyro career will be stalled. It's fun, too. And rewarding.

 

What specific Aluminum have you purchased? Mesh size? Particle size? Flake or atomized? There are many, and they are good for different things but not necessarily interchangeable. I would suggest putting that away in a drawer for now. Do NOT store your oxidizers and fuels together, ffs!

 

But first, read, read, read !!! This is an exciting and fun hobby, but a risky one. Your goal is to learn the risks and how to manage them so you don't end up a "dumbass that blew their face off" statistic. Wouldn't be good for your dating life, if you live. There are plenty of folks here that can help you along, but few of us suffer fools and the helpless that require hand-holding. So do some reading and ask intelligent questions. And you will get answers and suggestions, learn much, and have a hell of a lot of fun. And get a decent notebook and keep track of your progress and projects, in detail--you'll appreciate this later on, more than you probably can imagine right now!

 

Have fun, lots, but safety is first always, got it?

 

SW

[zZz]

ZZZ hey,

 

Here's a suggestion for you. Take a look at the red Plasma Torch Cutter Fountain project at: https://www.skylighter.com/blogs/how-to-make-fireworks/plasma-cutter-fountain

 

It's an excellent first project that makes an ass-kicking brilliant red torch that blasts fire up to 15-20 feet high, depending on your additives. It burns super hot and is really cool. It is Strontium Nitrate heavy, and includes a few ingredients (4 total) that are not expensive or dangerous and easy to find (magnalium, parlon, and red gum). All of these you can buy easily, at, for example, fireworkscookbook.com. For the magnalium, i use the -60 mesh he sells, not the finer 200-mesh powder the recipe calls for, but either will work well; mine puts out larger sparks. The parlon will teach you the importance of chlorine donors in enhancing color in many compositions. The red gum is a common binder that also acts as a fuel. You can buy tooling, or easily manufacture the wooden tooling shown in the project for cheap. You will learn about making nozzles, a skill critical for making essentially all gerbs and almost all rockets except nozzleless ones. You can buy tubes or make them yourself for cheap. Know that this formula burns super hot and will cook through even thick-walled commercial rocket tubes in some cases, especially if you re-use/reload them after using (don't recommend this; not dangerous, but sidewall burn through wrecks stops the fountain instantly), or if you make them too long. You can make this a real sparky blaster by adding 8-10% extra spherical titanium (i get mine from Phil at ihaveadotcom.com that is quality stuff). Do not, please ram sponge titanium from other sources. It is an excellent first real project that takes advantage of your prior strontium nitrate acquisition, and is a lot of fun.

 

Be careful with barium nitrate until you are a little more appreciative of protective gear and safety considerations--the shit is toxic as hell, but useful.

 

Please stay away from using your KClO₃ for now--too much can go wrong, even with those experienced using it. It does have value in making smoke bombs and in some colored star compositions for aerial shells, but you are nowhere near that level yet. Just leave it stowed away for now.

 

You have KNO₃ and sulfur. Great! Learn to make black powder, BP, the basis of almost everything pyro! Get, or better yet learn to make your own personalized charcoal. Making BP is a basic pyro skill that you need to master, and understand intimately. It's used for almost everything pyro and until you can make reliably decent BP your pyro career will be stalled. It's fun, too. And rewarding.

 

What specific Aluminum have you purchased? Mesh size? Particle size? Flake or atomized? There are many, and they are good for different things but not necessarily interchangeable. I would suggest putting that away in a drawer for now. Do NOT store your oxidizers and fuels together, ffs!

 

But first, read, read, read !!! This is an exciting and fun hobby, but a risky one. Your goal is to learn the risks and how to manage them so you don't end up a "dumbass that blew their face off" statistic. Wouldn't be good for your dating life, if you live. There are plenty of folks here that can help you along, but few of us suffer fools and the helpless that require hand-holding. So do some reading and ask intelligent questions. And you will get answers and suggestions, learn much, and have a hell of a lot of fun. And get a decent notebook and keep track of your progress and projects, in detail--you'll appreciate this later on, more than you probably can imagine right now!

 

Have fun, lots, but safety is first always, got it?

 

SW

Got it. Much appreciated.

[Arthur]

In old formulae Calomel, Paris Green, are toxic and will kill, Soluble Barium salts can be ingested and you may suffer poisoning.

Any mixture including chlorates and sulphur or it's compounds can spontaneously burn/blow up.

 

There have been incidents in the time of this forum involving high percentage burns and plastic surgery, also someone having fingers and a thumb blown off.

 

Pyro IS a risk hobby things will burn, they are meant to! But with wisdom and learning from others you may not suffer as badly as others did, you will have an accident at some time.

[SharkWhisperer]

Hello everyone , i was gonna buy strontium and barium nitrate for making torch/flare , i've already ordered some aluminium for it , i do have kclo3/kno3 and sulphur too , but i realized that carbonates work the same way , my question is will be any differences between these formulas:

 

Strontium nitrate

Al

 

Strontium carbonate

KClO3 or KNo3

Sugar

Sulphur

So what formulation have you decided on? Hey, sorry for slamming your first post, but you didn't even include ratios of chems, so impossible to appreciate. With a Sr nitrate based formula, and probably with the carbonate formula, too, you're going to want to add a chlorine donor to make the red actually look red. Parlon is a good one to consider. What type/size Al did you purchase? Straight Al may not be ideal; most use magnalium MgAl, an alloy of magnesium and aluminum, for the effect you're aiming at. The composition for the Skylighter Plasma Torch I mentioned is as follows, and puts out a mean red flame that you can control by tube size and nozzle diameter. If you include some larger magnalium, it spits mean sparks high. Titanium is even better--please use spherical and not sponge if you are hand-ramming. If using metal tooling, omit the metals until you're above your spindle height to prevent sparking from titanium rubbing against the spindle (plus, it'll chew up your tooling).

 

The table I copied lost formatting when I uploaded here. The Plasma Torch Component Percent Factor to make 100 g batch: Strontium nitrate proportion = 50% (50 g) Magnalium, 200-mesh proportion = 20% (20 g); Parlon proportion = 20% (20 g); Red gum proportion = 10% (10 g). You'll need to make some simple tooling (or buy it) to pound nozzles and fuel increments (outside, with proper protective gear!). Nozzles are clay, just grind up the cheapest Walmart kitty litter in a coffee grinder to a nice powder and it'll make sufficient nozzles for this mixture.

 

Of course there are many other red fountain/gerb formulations, but please stay away from the ones that use chlorates for a good long time, until you have a handle on the basics (and can make your own BP, which is also the foundation of many, many fountain/torch formulations).

 

Stay safe.

Edited February 27, 2020 by SharkWhisperer

[SKC]

zZz, if you allow me to help you I shall say drop your project for a week or two. By this time browse over different sections of this forum. In Pyro you first need to know what not to do before doing any thing. There are no. of good compositions with which you can make good flair torch. And please drop the chlorate.

[pyrodivision]

can i make red illuminating flare using strontium nitrate, magnesium and pvc ? i dont have kclo4, and what the best binder for it ?

[cevmarauder]

can i make red illuminating flare using strontium nitrate, magnesium and pvc ? i dont have kclo4, and what the best binder for it ?

Red gum is the best binder for it; problem with using a water-based binder like dextrin is that strontium nitrate is really bloody hygroscopic. Although, hmmm, I wonder if the dextrin would draw the moisture out. Check the link out, there's no KClO4 required.

 

zZz: you definitely came to the right place. Some folks here may come off a little crotchety (years of "Boom-Boom Kiddies" coming in here and wanting to learn how to blow their hands off has jaded them) but there's a shitload of knowledge and experience accumulated in these folks and they're eager to guide newbies who care/are smart enough to do basic research before moving on to the practical exam.

 

As others said, pack the Potassium Chlorate up and save it for a a long time from now when you're more experienced. And never mix it with sulfur--or sulfides, which is where experience and knowledge come in. Here's a video of a guy mixing various ratios of sulfur to chlorate, and testing it for friction sensitivity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSJwtHRmfSQ

 

There's a reason you can make ammunition primers with potassium chlorate. It's not something for the inexperienced to play with. Even combining sulfur and Potassium Perchlorate is risky-- I still hold my breath when making Shimizu Thunder #3.

 

Skylighter.com is a fantastic resource for folks wanting to start amateur pyrotechnics--there's a wealth of free knowledge and projects there.

Edited April 12, 2020 by cevmarauder

[pyrodivision]

Red gum is the best binder for it; problem with using a water-based binder like dextrin is that strontium nitrate is really bloody hygroscopic. Although, hmmm, I wonder if the dextrin would draw the moisture out. Check the link out, there's no KClO4 required.

 

zZz: you definitely came to the right place. Some folks here may come off a little crotchety (years of "Boom-Boom Kiddies" coming in here and wanting to learn how to blow their hands off has jaded them) but there's a shitload of knowledge and experience accumulated in these folks and they're eager to guide newbies who care/are smart enough to do basic research before moving on to the practical exam.

 

As others said, pack the Potassium Chlorate up and save it for a a long time from now when you're more experienced. And never mix it with sulfur--or sulfides, which is where experience and knowledge come in. Here's a video of a guy mixing various ratios of sulfur to chlorate, and testing it for friction sensitivity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSJwtHRmfSQ

 

There's a reason you can make ammunition primers with potassium chlorate. It's not something for the inexperienced to play with. Even combining sulfur and Potassium Perchlorate is risky-- I still hold my breath when making Shimizu Thunder #3.

 

Skylighter.com is a fantastic resource for folks wanting to start amateur pyrotechnics--there's a wealth of free knowledge and projects there.

yeah i think like that, chlorate is dangerous with sulfur,

but for now I have tried various formulas

for red flares, this is my composition

srontium nitrate 57 (60)

pvc 16 (10)

mg 27 (30) (80-100 mesh)

+ 2 linseed oil

But, burning fires are still unstable, and residual fires often close noozle holes, so that they often blaze fire like larvae,

I also tried adding a little bit of an oxidator like charcoal, but the results were still not satisfactory

I started looking for formula references, some suggested adding kcl04, but that was very difficult to find in my country

iam from indonesia, fireworks in my country are not classified as hobbies, so it's very difficult to import goods from skylighter,

thank you, greetings

[Crazy Swede]

@pyrodivision, please keep all your questions regarding your initial question in the same thread!

 

Anayway, this type of composition always produces some slag and is not good to use in choked cases.

 

Sometimes the combustion is smoother if the magnesium level is raised and a gas producing ingredient like guanidinium nitrate is added.

 

Is your strontium nitrate finely ground?

[pyrodivision]

@crazyswede before use my strontium, i put the strontium to oven and grind in to finely ground, i use magnesium chips maybe 60mesh-120mesh

i just mix all with 5% linseed oil,

 

 

Do you have any other composition?

Edited May 26, 2021 by pyrodivision