Is APC dying out?

[SharkWhisperer]

I raise this query for discussion for very good reason. I was exploring the pyro world on one Reddit site (...reddit/r/pyrotechnics; there's another "fireworks" that I haven't visited yet). A LOTTA newbies, no, sorry, pre-nubies even, many apparently eager to lose skin and digits, at minimum. Dug a little deeper and started getting even more worried. There are a lot of kids out there that like fire. Cool. But too many in my observations were completely clueless about common sense, nevermind the flash topic popularity. They need help, big time.

 

Some are like most of us: kinda smart & curious or just average smart & curious. Others are more worrisome. Much more so--questions like "how do I make black powder" and "should I make flash" and "how do I know if my homemade charcoal is any good". Simple, sometimes scary, questions. Yikes. They require help.

 

On several threads, I mentioned APC. There is at least one pervasive Huckleberry who reveres NG, because he refers to him effectively as all-knowing on multiple occasions. Maybe he's just G's new personal assistant, who knows, who cares ... BUT, FW.com is being touted at the best of everything, while other forums, ours included, are ignored or denigrated. Here's an example, from Jan 27, 2020:

 

"I am a member of APC as well as Fireworking .com both are good sites and APC is free as Shark-Whisperer mentioned while Neds site is a $40 yearly subscription. Unfortunatley APC is dying while it is a good reference most everyone has moved to Fireworking.com The majority of what is left on APC are newbies and people from outside the US which sucks because it was what got me started."

 

Please share your thoughts....

Edited January 28, 2020 by SharkWhisperer

[NeighborJ]

APC isn't dying out. Certain times of the year are much more action packed. Things around here usually really pick up in a month or two as people start preparing for the 4th. Fireworking has its ups and downs as well, most people need breaks from such demanding hobbies on occasion.

[Arthur]

There are lots of issues, probably a significant one is cost. The 16" I once made cost over $500 but it was pleasant.

[SharkWhisperer]

NJ & Arthur thanks, appreciate your inputs. Of course pyro things wax and wane with the seasons (in the northern half the country, at least).

 

But what are your opinions regarding the quote I cited, purporting that APC is overly newbie-laden and its international contributors are detrimental instead of complementary to the discussions? And that the APC rats are jumping ship en masse on a one-way trip over to Ned's site?

 

To repeat a redditor comment: "I am a member of APC as well as Fireworking .com both are good sites and APC is free as Shark-Whisperer mentioned while Neds site is a $40 yearly subscription. Unfortunatley [sic] APC is dying while it is a good reference most everyone has moved to Fireworking.com The majority of what is left on APC are newbies and people from outside the US which sucks because it was what got me started."

 

I thought that statement to be inaccurate and took offense at that...

 

Check out reddit's r/pyrotechnics if you want to make yourself anxious about newbies blowing their faces off for lack of good advice!

Edited January 28, 2020 by SharkWhisperer

[Aspirina]

I understand the problem of newbies, but what is the problem with people from other countries?

[SharkWhisperer]

I understand the problem of newbies, but what is the problem with people from other countries?

Who the hell knows?

 

Here was my response regarding the internationality of this forum: "And yes, APC has become an international (though still by far USA-heavy) forum. So's Ned's site. What kind of superiority complex do you entertain that convinces you that you cannot learn something new and valuable from somebody who lives in other parts of the world? That's simply naive."

 

He responded defensively, so I called him Delicate Nancy and dismissed him (how mature, right?!?).

 

But that attitude really pissed me off. There are bright and knowledgeable pyros worldwide, and to think they don't make valuable contributions is just stupid. My only problem with non-US pyros is that they often have a hard time getting basic chems (perc, metals especially) and have to use their keen entrepreneurial ingenuity to make them themselves--it gives me an inferiority complex, hah ha ha! Pure respect for the guys making their own KClO₃ and magnalium! That is dedication!

[NeighborJ]

There are lots of talented people from countries other than the states, to imply otherwise is quite insulting to everyone.

 

There are a lot of newbs here and everyone needs to start somewhere. Not a whole lot of people have the patience and the knowledge base to effectively convey safe information. The consequences of giving bad info could be deadly so it is a good idea to remain silent unless you know the information thoroughly enough to give advise. It is a great service to give back the information which has been so freely given here to newcomers. I can't tell you how many times I've learned something new fron the questions a newcomer has asked.

 

FW has much less newcomers and all are welcome there but I caution you that misbehaviour is not recieved well there.

[Mumbles]

APC dying is news to me. I admit I haven't been as active as I'd like, and part of that is not being able to steer things back in the right direction if they go down avenues we may not prefer or may become overly flash focused. It's mostly computer problems, as my phone is not an ideal way to make as detailed or informative posts as I'd like. I'm hoping to remedy that soon. I try to keep up, but it's hard when I can't interact as much.

 

Thank you for supporting us and speaking the good word.

 

I do like FW too, it's a wonderful resource. We fulfill complimentary roles in the hobby I feel.

[Piccaso]

I do not take that persons statement as being negative towards APC. The person states on more than one occasion that APC is a good site and it was APC that started them in fireworking. I can partly understand the point they make about people from outside the US. Not in their having a lack of knowledge because that is just not the case. I for one have trouble understanding some people from outside of the US. We take great care in making our instructions clear and precise so there is no misunderstanding and people do not get hurt. Differences in language can cause confusion which can lead to mistakes and injuries. That is the only issue I see in communicating with people who's native tongue isn't English. Their are talented fireworkers from all over the world thats for sure.

[Yus]

It seems that the Fireworking.com is the commercial Ned's project. I have spoken with Ned a few times. He's like a... big baby. He makes very simple things comparing with others. https://www.amateurpyro.com/ is truly international resource and it is opened for everyone comparing with Fireworking.com ...

Edited January 29, 2020 by Yus

[Piccaso]

Well while we are all showing support for APC how about everyone that has not donated to it's operational cost this year do so if you can. Looking at the donation board APC needs us.

[davidh]

I'm not paying $40 a year to join Ned's forum site. Last time I was a member, it seemed that most of the new "projects" were nothing but pointers to related forum threads. Who needs that?

[Boophoenix]

Each place has it’s own niche areas. Participating in four forums each has it’s own things to offer. Each has it’s own way about it as well. Passfire is the main declined forum I’m aware of, but still has a wealth of information.

The only thing bad about multiple resources is when the conversations and information get cross posted and trying to find a relative snippet you had seen seems complex then.

[justvisiting]

I LIKE the international flavor of APC! People that live in less affluent and/or more restrictive countries need to be more creative than those of us that buy everything 'off the shelf'. Also, People from these places have generally better manners, respect for each other, and a willingness to work together. For anybody that thinks APC might be dead, just ask an interesting pyro question that isn't already thoroughly covered, and see how long it takes to get an answer.

 

I like Ned's forum too. But the info is behind a pay wall. APC serves a valuable function, and the 'outsiders' bring us ideas that are unique and interesting. I can navigate through poor speeling and grammer, and ask for castrification if nessessary

[Piccaso]

I LIKE the international flavor of APC! People that live in less affluent and/or more restrictive countries need to be more creative than those of us that buy everything 'off the shelf'. Also, People from these places have generally better manners, respect for each other, and a willingness to work together. For anybody that thinks APC might be dead, just ask an interesting pyro question that isn't already thoroughly covered, and see how long it takes to get an answer.

 

I like Ned's forum too. But the info is behind a pay wall. APC serves a valuable function, and the 'outsiders' bring us ideas that are unique and interesting. I can navigate through poor speeling and grammer, and ask for castrification if nessessary

Ok now you are confusing me also. "I can navigate through poor speeling and grammer, and ask for castrification if nessessary " I think the acetone fumes are getting to me or you or one of us.

[PTFE]

I understand the problem of newbies, but what is the problem with people from other countries?

I think a big problem is the law. In the States you have much more opportunities to exert this hobby than in the EU for example.

Here you even get problems if you own any amount of BP without permission.

 

[PTFE]

I LIKE the international flavor of APC! People that live in less affluent and/or more restrictive countries need to be more creative than those of us that buy everything 'off the shelf'. Also, People from these places have generally better manners, respect for each other, and a willingness to work together. For anybody that thinks APC might be dead, just ask an interesting pyro question that isn't already thoroughly covered, and see how long it takes to get an answer.

 

I like Ned's forum too. But the info is behind a pay wall. APC serves a valuable function, and the 'outsiders' bring us ideas that are unique and interesting. I can navigate through poor speeling and grammer, and ask for castrification if nessessary

 

Im on picasso's side-Sounds like a bit of sarcasm combined with acetone

 

 

[justvisiting]

What, don't you guys speak winkyface?

[CityPigeonPyro]

OK. I have learned a lot over the years. Not from just one place. There is a world of unlimited possibilities because of the internet. Anyone that just uses one source to gather or give info, is just limiting their exposure. If you like a genre of reading, do you just read one author from one publisher? Or do you explore more than just that. Just because one is good, doesn't mean another can't be good also. Each brings something different to the table. We all want everyone to be safe and do things correctly, but there are going to always be people out there just to do stupid shit. It will not go away and we can not ultimately control it.

[Crazy Swede]

I have been around here a long time, even before this site got its present name and shape. I'm a professional pyrotechnist since 25 years but I still find it entertaining to read on the forums to see what is being discussed and sometimes give a little help or some warnings.

 

For what it is worth I have found a lot of useful information on Fireworking and I like the higher level of discussion there connected to fireworks history, traditional techniques as well as new effects and use of new materials.

 

To me Ned is both a guru and an extremely nice gentleman. Calling him a baby just because he has spent a lot of time showing simple and well functioning basic techniques in his videos is really silly. He just started his FW 401 series and the projects get more and more advanced.

 

Maybe my view on this site is tainted from its anarchistic background but there usually are too many basic questions and discussions here to really catch my interest.

[Yus]

Crazy Swede, "Ned guru" sounds me funny. Yes, he has several nice shells and maybe he is guru in his region. I know about his chanel in youtube. But his answers there are almost equal, he always points on Fireworking and payment if you ask him about anything. It's not a matter of money, I paid for good info, but not in that case. Thanks to youtube, to this and other open forums you always find several answers. IMHO.

[Crazy Swede]

Yus, I'm not sure what you mean with region but I agree he mostly focuses on simpler fireworks of typical Italo-American style. But, what impresses me is that he has so many nice tricks to solve problems that I think is gold to anyone and at the same time he is very humble about there always are many ways to accomplish one thing. That is a guru to me!

[justvisiting]

Say what you want about Ned and his site. It's the best single source of pyro information 40 bucks can buy. Ned has done a lot of work building the community on FW. What Ned knows, he knows from actual experience. If he can't answer a question, there's always somebody that can. Some of the YouTube videos are VERY educational to newer pyros, and free. You want a tutor, well, that costs money

[spectra1]

I agree Ned's site is worth it. You are not just paying for Neds experience but also for all the other experts that contribute. I also love APC, just think that fireworking.com also has a place.

[Arthur]

Anyone objecting to non-Americans should remember that black powder was invented by the Chinese and the use of colours was facilitated by Chertier's 1820s first use of chlorates and Chertier was French. Without BP and coloured flames/stars fireworks as we know them would be rather minimalist and probably toxic (Arsenic, mercury and lead compounds).