Hummers

[RubberRed1999]

One of my favourite inserts are hummers, their funny little zip and go getter like behaviour leaves me in awe.

 

Which makes me wonder, why dont they get used more often. Ive never seen them in a professional show.

 

Does anyone know why? Is it because theyre unpredictable?

 

RR

[memo]

i had a girl that used to come by and help me out with a hummer, she just got to expensive

[BetICouldMake1]

One of my favourite inserts are hummers, their funny little zip and go getter like behaviour leaves me in awe.

 

Which makes me wonder, why dont they get used more often. Ive never seen them in a professional show.

 

Does anyone know why? Is it because theyre unpredictable?

 

RR

 

I'd guess because most shows, unless you're in Italy or Malta, are all shooting ball shells and hummers are usually used as inserts in cylinder shells. Aside from that it might just be a cost thing. Much easier to roll huge batches of stars than it is to press up a bunch of hummers.

[cmjlab]

Sorry for responding to an old thread, I didn't want to make a new one.

 

I have researched/tested Hummers by reading FAST, Fulcanelli, APC of course, Passfire forum, and several Best of AFN articles (well read them for many reasons in addition to Hummers), tested different tubes / formulas and my final product is okay IMO (open to criticism). However I wondered if there is a way to spice up the fuel a bit more to achieve a bit more volume. I already use straight Milled B.P., with the smallest hole possible without CATO (whichh may mean I have crap B.P.). Anyway, link and details as follows:

 

 

Formula:

Milled B.P. with 10% ~60 Mesh Ti (Spherical)

(I've pressed for consistency with 1T Arbor Press)

 

Homemade Tube Dimensions

5/8" ID

1 1/8" OD

1 1/4" Tall

3/32" Vent

 

Questions:

- Would a small addition of whistle increase sound volume?

- How do thinnerwall rocket tubes still work? I've tried NEPT and home rolled 1/8 wall tubes but the erode too quick and degrade sound.

- Is the sound any louder with the Bricks Resourcinol formula?

- What is the largest size Hummer / "Mad Lion" I can take while still achieving the desirable "whooping" sound? (I've had little success with 1" ID tubes but have not tried as many tube / formula variations as I have with the smaller ones)

 

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[Mumbles]

Those actually look/sound really good.

 

You can try to spice up the BP mix a little bit with whistle. I know a few people who do that. I've heard them say they've added upwards of 40% whistle by weight. I have a feeling they might not have been starting with the hottest BP though, as that sure sounds like a lot to me. I'd start around 10% by weight, and see how it works for you. Generally speaking, the faster you can get them spinning, the louder they'll be.

 

I'm not sure how large you can go. About the largest I've seen with the typical sound is 1" or 1.25" ID or so. The few Mad Lion type devices (3"+ ID) I've seen tend to be a deeper pitch. Maybe it's the bigger/thicker/heavier tube, larger exhaust hole, or slower fuel. For what it's worth, I've seen a lot more exploding lions than properly mad roaring lions.

[Richtee]

Damn. You got a good start! I’d call those a day.

[cmjlab]

I appreciate the response and compliments, especially from you guys - I've seen some of your items and they look really good (I've been sticking with 3" cylinder shells myself until I can get really proficient, then ill try bigger)

 

I have been a member for a while but am often reluctant to post anything since I can find most of what I need from reading other topics. Even on passfire.com, Lloyd scares me so I don't post there either! (Jk but he also has good advice)

 

As for the deeper pitch, that's often what I get with the 1" ID tubes. I'll keep with these tubes for now then and maybe try a few with 10% whistle.... I have a feeling they'll CATO or require to big if a vent to keep the same high pitch sound.

[Pyroit]

Hi, Does someone know any composition for red hummer, without black powder just Kclo4/Mg/Srno3)2 /Parlon like tom rebenklau hummer composition?

[Pyroit]

[quote name="Pyroit" post="193026

[cmjlab]

I'm not an expert by any means, but have done lots of reading on Hummers here and on Passfire - there's been some discussion on making colored hummers but I never did find any successful solutions, other than possibly attaching a colored star to the hummer (like a rising tail on a shell) or pressing a colored star comp increment (which didn't seem to really pan out either). *The possible solutions are NOT my ideas (though they make sense) - I just read them in posts by other members*

 

If you search "colored hummers" here in APC it'll bring up a few threads. This link has a couple of possible colored hummers posted by another forum member.

 

https://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/883-colored-hummers/?p=14967

 

Good luck, let me know if you figure it out!

[WSM]

Sorry for responding to an old thread, I didn't want to make a new one.

I have researched/tested Hummers by reading FAST, Fulcanelli, APC of course, Passfire forum, and several Best of AFN articles (well read them for many reasons in addition to Hummers), tested different tubes / formulas and my final product is okay IMO (open to criticism). However I wondered if there is a way to spice up the fuel a bit more to achieve a bit more volume. I already use straight Milled B.P., with the smallest hole possible without CATO (whichh may mean I have crap B.P.). Anyway, link and details as follows:

Formula:

Milled B.P. with 10% ~60 Mesh Ti (Spherical)

(I've pressed for consistency with 1T Arbor Press)

Homemade Tube Dimensions

5/8" ID

1 1/8" OD

1 1/4" Tall

3/32" Vent

Questions:

- Would a small addition of whistle increase sound volume?

- How do thinnerwall rocket tubes still work? I've tried NEPT and home rolled 1/8 wall tubes but the erode too quick and degrade sound.

- Is the sound any louder with the Bricks Resourcinol formula?

- What is the largest size Hummer / "Mad Lion" I can take while still achieving the desirable "whooping" sound? (I've had little success with 1" ID tubes but have not tried as many tube / formula variations as I have with the smaller ones)

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

 

I'd say those work beautifully. Back in the day, when I was trying to use hand mixed meal for hummers, I didn't succeed until I added enough FFFg powder (commercial black powder for muzzle loading pistols) to the mix to get an effect like you showed.

 

Smaller tubes seem to spin faster than larger tubes (probably due to physics). Thicker or very much stronger tubes seem to help. I've seen some manufacturers use paper-phenolic tubes for hummers, but the composition was cast in and not pressed.

 

Good luck and keep up the good work. I've always loved hummer effects added to shells and remember them fondly in lots of shows when I was a kid (MANY years ago, I'm a Grandpa now)!

 

WSM

Edited December 12, 2021 by WSM

[WSM]

Hi, Does someone know any composition for red hummer, without black powder just Kclo4/Mg/Srno3)2 /Parlon like tom rebenklau hummer composition?

 

If you can contact Tom, he'll tell you what he used and how it was done. He is always willing to share.

 

WSM

[Carbon796]

TR red hummer

.55 KP

.16 Mg/Al

.10 parlon

.09 strontium nitrate

.06 RG

.04 Dex

 

Rice with 7% boric acid treated water, and dry. To help control dust.

I don't know if this is his current formula. But, he was using it at one point.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Carbon796

[Pyroitaly]

Yes , this formula is in percentage without 0 in frontit make really good sound with red flame !

[cmjlab]

Thanks for the feedback WSM, I appreciate it. In the end, I've found this size to be about the best I could achieve with regular homemade black powder. I'd be interested in trying some commercial black powder, and for achieving consistent time with spolettes, but it's been hard to find any lately that isn't above $30+ (USD) a pound online. I live in Northern VA and am not able to find any stores at all that carry reloading powders (smokeless or BP). $30.00 prob doesn't seem like much, but Im in the military and have several kids so I have to spend "wisely" when my wife isn't looking! 😁

 

Carbon - thanks for posting the TR formula, I look forward to giving that a try! I had a question on the Boric Acid though - I've read that it attacks Mg/Al, is that not actually true? And if not, then is it to help protect the Mg/Al? I've already passivated it with dichromate so maybe it doesn't matter.

 

Either way, I thank both of you gentleman!

[cmjlab]

Thanks for the feedback WSM, I appreciate it. In the end, I've found this size to be about the best I could achieve with regular homemade black powder. I'd be interested in trying some commercial black powder, and for achieving consistent time with spolettes, but it's been hard to find any lately that isn't above $30+ (USD) a pound online. I live in Northern VA and am not able to find any stores at all that carry reloading powders (smokeless or BP). $30.00 prob doesn't seem like much, but Im in the military and have several kids so I have to spend "wisely" when my wife isn't looking! 😁

 

Carbon - thanks for posting the TR formula, I look forward to giving that a try! I had a question on the Boric Acid though - I've read that it attacks Mg/Al, is that not actually true? And if not, then is it to help protect the Mg/Al? I've already passivated it with dichromate so maybe it doesn't matter.

 

Either way, I thank both of you gentleman!

[Carbon796]

Yes, that's the general consensus. I personally don't see the need for it, and would just use plain distilled water.

 

I personally use my ballmilled BP for spolettes. With no sacrifice in quality / consistency. I use the fines, from processing course and medium cuts. Definitely wouldn't waste money to buy commercial BP for spolettes. It's not necessary, if your already making your own quality BP.

[cmjlab]

TR red hummer

.55 KP

.16 Mg/Al

.10 parlon

.09 strontium nitrate

.06 RG

.04 Dex

 

Rice with 7% boric acid treated water, and dry. To help control dust.

I don't know if this is his current formula. But, he was using it at one point.

________________

 

Update on Colored Hummers:

 

I tried the TR colored hummer formula from Carbon, the comp makes a really energetic and good colored red (tested in Box Star form below). But I wasn't successful making a hummer because my tubes failed due to vent erosion too quickly.

 

I used -325 Mesh Mg/Al in the comp (treated with dichromate) and individually ball milled chemicals. I riced it using water, dried it and then compacted into same hummer tubes used for my BP hummers.

 

I'm guessing the perc based comp burns much hotter than my BP (which works in the same tube and same size vent hole) which is why it erodes so quickly? I plan to try water glass coated tubes next, and potentially a coarser Mg/Al?

 

Box Star Test

https://youtu.be/8El5PJe9rLc

 

Failed Red Hummer

https://youtu.be/IIwkEaMHzP0

[Carbon796]

Dichromate conversion coatings are not needed for typical Mg/Al alloys.

 

Only for Magnesium with AP.

 

And, does not offer protection for magnesium with strontium/barium nitrate comps. This is where a boiled linseed oil coating should be used instead.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Carbon796

[cmjlab]

Dichromate conversion coatings are not needed for typical Mg/Al alloys.

 

Only for Magnesium with AP.

 

And, does not offer protection for magnesium with strontium/barium nitrate comps. This is where a boiled linseed oil coating should be used instead.

Fair point, to be honest, it's dichromate coated because I'm terrified of the orange stuff (more than is probably necessary) so I coated all my Mg/Al and Mg when I put purchased it so I wouldn't have to do small batches Everytime I wanted strobe comp. In hindsight I would only coat the Mg, and leave the Mg/Al uncoated so I could do Boiled Linseed Oil for everything not touching AP.

 

I also was thinking it might act as a catalyst in the hummer Comp to speed the burn, and help it "hum" more. (Also a purely uneducated guess based on what I've read here and on Passfire)

[cmjlab]

Update to my original Hummer Tests:

 

I finally had a chance to test some hummers using whistle as a booster 70% B.P. and 30% crappy K-Benz Whistle). Overall, it worked and was a bit louder, but I had to use a bigger vent hole to avoid CATO / RUD so it may not be worth the extra risk of a more sensitive booster, when B.P. alone gets almost as loud. The biggest difference I noticed was that the hummer shot into the air much faster (since I like to drill at a slight angle to create lift with the spin, when firing single hummers (creates a more interesting effect and keeps you on your toes guessing which way they will fly!)

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/W81IbXkwFxU?feature=share

[Bourbon]

That was nice!

[cmjlab]

https://youtube.com/shorts/BrymbGF2LYg?feature=share

 

(4" Cylinder w/ 14 BP Hummers specs to my earlier post of comp/tube dimensions)

 

I was finally able to test my BP Hummers in a shell (tho my helper didn't start to record till after the shell was fired). I definitely prefer the BP Hummer sounds, and haven't been able to mimic TR's colored Hummers. I've tried a few suggestions from here and over on FW.com, but I suspect the Mg/Al mesh is the key factor to change burn speed. I'll order some of August's milled Mg/Al once I save up a bit more money and try the colors again.