Perchlorates in EU

[THEONE]

Does anybody know if there is any place that perchlorates can be bought and shiped to individualts inside Europe ?

 

Thanks

[Gerben]

Not legally, but you might find someone who can sell it to you illegaly

[THEONE]

I see. Better to try it on my own instead of risking it.

[rellim]

Too bad you live in the EUSSR.

[mx5kevin]

Not all chlorates and perchlorates in the EU on the explosive precursors list. Like barium chlorate, calcium chlorate. In Germany they talk about calcium chlorate. Ammonium perchlorate possible buy from UK and not on the EU explosive precursors list, or perchloric acid in the EU but 1000ml of the latter is very costly. All can be transformed to potassium Chlorate/Perchlorate. KClO4 are problematic, KClO3 are easy to everyone. NH4ClO4 are easy way to convert to KClO4 with boiling it with KOH. Converting chlorates to perchlorates without electrolysis are problematic. A way to get perchlorates to sodium chloride electrolysis with MMO than contiune the prrchlorate process with PbO2 anode. Or directly electrolysis with a minimum 50 micron thick pure platinum clad anode in a niobium copper base or pure silver base. From Poland we can try some sellers to buy KClO4 (illegally). Easier to get from end users (like entrepreneurs). The old tried and true option is acquaintances in your own country. Those who have succeeded will not often share how in pyro forums or in open communities. Those who visit you personally or want to buy from you are the trap! In private, no one will help in this matter where he got it. Those who can make it themselves won't sell it either, unless he is a personal acquaintance. Whoever really wants it can solve it. In the long term, the best solution is to make it yourself. If you are an entrepreneur with WAT number, you can get it for experimental use, lab reagent, or work in such a place. The problem is always to get the perchlorates not the chlorates. Users can shop safely within the Schengen area because there is no customs duty.

[Conure]

It's expensive and requires some work but this danish site sells legal water diluted KClO3 and KClO4. At this moment the site is down for maintenace.

https://pyrohub.eu/product-category/chemicals/

 

I have bought from them myself.

 

Not all chlorates and perchlorates in the EU on the explosive precursors list. Like barium chlorate, calcium chlorate. In Germany they talk about calcium chlorate. Ammonium perchlorate possible buy from UK and not on the EU explosive precursors list, or perchloric acid in the EU but 1000ml of the latter is very costly. All can be transformed to potassium Chlorate/Perchlorate. KClO4 are problematic, KClO3 are easy to everyone. NH4ClO4 are easy way to convert to KClO4 with boiling it with KOH. Converting chlorates to perchlorates without electrolysis are problematic. A way to get perchlorates to sodium chloride electrolysis with MMO than contiune the prrchlorate process with PbO2 anode. Or directly electrolysis with a minimum 50 micron thick pure platinum clad anode in a niobium copper base or pure silver base. From Poland we can try some sellers to buy KClO4 (illegally). Easier to get from end users (like entrepreneurs). The old tried and true option is acquaintances in your own country. Those who have succeeded will not often share how in pyro forums or in open communities. Those who visit you personally or want to buy from you are the trap! In private, no one will help in this matter where he got it. Those who can make it themselves won't sell it either, unless he is a personal acquaintance. Whoever really wants it can solve it. In the long term, the best solution is to make it yourself. If you are an entrepreneur with WAT number, you can get it for experimental use, lab reagent, or work in such a place. The problem is always to get the perchlorates not the chlorates. Users can shop safely within the Schengen area because there is no customs duty.

When you talk about buying AP in UK are you talking about amertek.com or some other place? Edited May 26, 2023 by Conure

[dave321]

i thought Amertek was down, or it seems to have been out of stock for some time ?

[mx5kevin]

Using a costumer specific platinum clad anode 70mmx3mm in a pure silver base rod 200 micron thick (0,2mm) in small doses 250g/time/3 week/400ml (For 400-1500ml cells) solution unlimited quantities can be made in small batches the KClO3 and KClO4 or NH4ClO4, Ba(ClO3)2. I use this method, not cheap, it's a bit complicated, but discreet, and is always at home. This electrode will last a lifetime. In larger quantities from 1000ml up to 5000ml need a MMO and strong beta PbO2 anode combination but the PbO2 are wears slowly in this case. The MMO anode are a durable anode. That's how I solved it, so I never had future problems with the purchase, since I don't need that.

Potassium perchlorate is the most frequently used raw material, high powered flash powder (for extreme firecrackers and high powered booster), whistle mixes, really exciting pyrotechnics with really powerful stuff there is no without it. It is already indispensable if you only want extreme firecrackers in this case for the flash powder. It is such an important ingredient that without it this hobby is boring. It's hard to make, but it's definitely worth it even only if you make nothing else only flash powder. KClO4 was typically obtained from the Poles.

Obtaining the chemical is a problematic. This status can change from day to day. The danger in that what in the USA are happened is that customers will be permanently listed when shopping online. This danger is particularly high in hobby and pyro shops.

Ammonium perchlorate cheaper way can buy from:

hobbychemicals.co.uk, amertek.co.uk, Ebay (From England)

Or in the listed chemicals.

The concentration is equal to or lower than the limit values set out in column in this case are avilable members of the general public. And it doesn't require licensing in this case. KClO3, KClO4, NaClO4, NaClO3 all of them maximum 40 % w/w and under.

Perchloric acid can still be considered 70% 1000ml, but it is very costly in the EU.

Among chlorates, there is barium chlorate, which is cheap and not restricted. Under the melting point at 250°C are starting decompose, ans contain crystal water what losing crystal water at degrees 120°C, the color when mixed with aluminum are greenish which is a big problem.

Solutions and egsotic perchlorates (Cobalt(II) perchlorate, Magnesium perchlorate, Nickel(II) perchlorate hexahydrate,) are too costly for the purpose and another perchlorates, chlorates are strongly hygroscopic. But this possibility is also given. These are very soluble perchlorates, from which potassium perchlorate can be easily prepared.

[Arthur]

Given lab space for a plastic bucket DIY perc is totally do-able. There are many methods described on the internet many of which will work! A power supply capable of making 4 - 6 volts at 15 -50 amps is a good start -May well say "meanwell" on it and come via ebay. The electrodes tend to come via ebay too, there are suppliers inside Schengen area EU. The big problem with shipping perc is that as a white powder it look like drugs in transit.

[Conure]

i thought Amertek was down, or it seems to have been out of stock for some time ?

Amertek stopped replying to messages in 2022 but still shipped. In 2023 they seem to take your money but not ship. Many of their products have been out of stock for several years. I dont think I have seen AP in stock since 2020.

[Conure]

Ammonium perchlorate cheaper way can buy from:

 

hobbychemicals.co.uk, amertek.co.uk, Ebay (From England)

 

I thought hobbychemicals was a scam site. They dont reply to messages. Where on ebay have you found AP?? Any link?

[Arthur]

Perc is like any other illegal white powder! There is a market but no-one who knows says where because people are watching and listening. Perc is needed in industry but it's not available to individuals.

[mx5kevin]

I thought hobbychemicals was a scam site. They dont reply to messages. Where on ebay have you found AP?? Any link?

 

I haven't seen it recently AP, was in the past in these sites. If it cannot be solved, another option must be sought. From suppliers inside Schengen area in EU safe to buy, and there is no customs control. A long-lasting guaranteed solution are the costumer specific platinum electrode what i described. KClO3, KClO4, NH4ClO4, Ba(ClO3)2 , it won't be a problem anymore. 6V 4A enough for it under 2A 1,5A can pass thorough the cell max with this small electrode. Procurement options change rapidly. It is worth describing what to look for, which is available in the long term. In specific places, it's there today, it won't be there tomorrow. However, all possibilities will not disappear.

[Arthur]

There are many copies of https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30756733582 on abe books website. Although it's a modern print it's a 100 year old text read the description. It's in English. Search Abe in your country to search for a copy at reasonable shipping.

[mx5kevin]

There are many copies of https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30756733582 on abe books website. Although it's a modern print it's a 100 year old text read the description. It's in English. Search Abe in your country to search for a copy at reasonable shipping.

 

Can't learn this from a book, no matter how much material you review, need more than two years of experience to do it relatively well. Everything is available on the Internet for free, it is not worth paying for such things. For money, they cannot show anything that is not available for free. Old content does not describe modern techniques, and moderns contents not describe old techniques. Homemade and industrial production work with very different parameters. Need saturated chloride solutions at room temperature and suitable electrodes for the purpose. Some electrodes good only for chlorates, some only for perchlorate and some both of them. Maximum 6V in all sized cells and minimum 4A required to start the process in a minimum 400ml cell. This basic knowledge is the basis of everything. The rest of the knowledge requires reviewing a lot of documents and experience is essential.

[Arthur]

The trouble here is that most people do not have any prior experience, for the inexperienced it's far better to have a study guide than to have piles of disused equipment.

 

There is now a supplier inside the Schengen zone offering mail order electrode sets, and complete power supplies with electrodes. (it's not me!). He also offers a free PDF of instructions on the web.

 

Anyone who thinks that they alone in their shed can work better than the early chemists with years of experience is deluded.

[johnnypyro]

In the UK, I can get KP from http://potassiumperchlorate.co.uk/ (I have no connection to this company). I have found them helpful and responsive.

 

I have also had good recent experiences with Amertek who have also been responsive about buying chemicals on the restricted list.

 

Of course, I have an EPP licence and you will need to turn up in person to collect and do the paperwork. However, both these companies are conveniently very close to each other.

[fireworkinsider]

Is Amertek still having shipping issues?

 

 

 

 

 

Signature

Writer for https://fireworkinsider.com/

[Arthur]

I would suspect that trading with permit holders only imposes severe restrictions on suppliers who need to account for every gram of perc and which end user it went to on what permit covered the sale. This may cause people to charge silly money, demand in person transactions, or simply only sell to registered companies.

[Conure]

Is Amertek still having shipping issues?

 

 

 

 

 

Signature

Writer for https://fireworkinsider.com/

Where did you hear about amertek having shipping issues? Anyway they seem to have issues refilling their stock and communicating with their costumers.