Beginner looking for tooling

[PyroWolf]

I'm not planning on doing this anytime soon. I want to get a little more comfortable with my setup and with the chemicals, but I would like to do my own gerbs eventually. So, I'm wondering what size tooling and tubes would be a good start for a beginner. Any suggestions?

[pyrokid]

If you want to get your hands dirty and build skills I recommend half inch to start. Go buy some oak dowels, paste, and a roll of kraft paper at the hardware store and roll some tubes and make some basic tooling. Investigate the effects of composition and nozzle geometry and tube quality(!) on gerb performance.

 

If you live out in the country and aren't afraid to burn more comp, you could easily start with 0.75 or 1 inch tubes, but material consumption and the hazards associated with quantity of composition start to increase quickly when you scale up.

[Arthur]

What size would your neighbours be happy with? If they malfunctioned with a bang???

 

Rule number one is do NOT upset the neighbours. If they are a mile or ten away it's different from if they share your drive and parking space.

[PyroWolf]

How likely is a mishap with a gerb? What would be a relatively safe and stable composition for a first gerb. I'm living rather close to my neighbors and really don't want to jeopardize our good relationships with them.

[Arthur]

The probability of a failure with your first gerb is close to 100%, half of those would be "too quiet" failures and half of those would be "too loud -neighbour annoying failures".

 

Try to read a lot of the forum, I know it's big and daunting you will find lots of formulae, but the formula is only one part you need. getting the right mesh sizes and the right assembly method is important.

 

Start small even 0.25 inch and work up.

[pyrokid]

Do you know what a spollette is? It can be thought of as a gerb without any clay plugs. If you start with these, your chance of a noisy failure will decrease because the tube will be open on both ends. The advantage of this method is to gain experience with the fundamentals of powder compaction, tube rolling, and tooling usage. Another idea is to start with nozzleless fountains. Again, less containment. Just suspend them at an elevation and watch the sparks fall to the ground.

 

Look at the compositions here and try to understand the role of all the elements of the formulas:

 

https://pyrodata.com/composition/fountains

 

My recommendation is to start with black powder type formulas and add metal particles for brighter sparks when you feel comfortable. Maybe 6 KNO3, 3 charcoal, 1 sulfur +10% coarse charcoal?

[PyroWolf]

So far my knowledge consists of stuff from Ned Gorski's fireworking 101. I planned on joining his site as well, just need to save up for the fee and then tooling and supplies. But first and foremost I wanted to setup a fireproof storage space for chemicals. Right now all I have is about 4lbs of kno3, but still safe storage is a priority. I very much appreciate your help and will continue to scour the forum to learn all I can before taking the next step. Also thank you pyrokid for the link that will be extremely useful. As far as discussing storage, I should post that question in safety and not continue that discussion here. Am I correct in assuming that? Edited July 19, 2019 by PyroWolf

[Arthur]

The first thing to learn is "all about black powder" all the mixes and variations including degrees of milling.

 

When you have powder perfect then you can make fuse, rockets, gerbes, lift charges, break charges and pass fires. then you add extra ingredients to get tails and glitters then you learn about colours.

[PyroWolf]

I'm not too keen on milling my powder. I've read of too many accidents happening. Am I wrong on this? Does that happen mainly with careless individuals?

[BetICouldMake1]

The dangers of milling powder are real, but if you consider the sheer volume of powder that's milled there are actually very few accidents, and they are almost always user error. That said, you can make perfectly serviceable powder without milling the complete composition.

[Arthur]

So much of hobby pyro requires good reliable powder in 0, 2, and 4 FA that you should consider how to proceed, by purchase or making of powder.

[Leadballs]

I have a few items for tooling for free. Can email at leadball@brightdsl.net

[PyroWolf]

I sent you an email leadballs.

[dagabu]

I'm not too keen on milling my powder. I've read of too many accidents happening. Am I wrong on this? Does that happen mainly with careless individuals?

 

Yupper, just "careless individuals" here!

 

I was inside of a ball mill holding 22# of BP green mix when it lit off, a whole month clinging onto life in an induced coma and have skin like fried chicken now on 30% of my body. What did I do wrong? I turned the drum... POOF!!

 

You do NOT have to mill the powder together but as Mumbles will testify too, even just charcoal grinding can lead to a fire. Never seen a ball mill ever catch fire with a single chem though. Just hyper mill them one at a time and with some hot water, add all three ingredients and knead it into a stiff ball then press it through a 4x4 mesh to dry.

 

I will never mill BP again, there is no need to do so but I do still work with pyro and I even teach classes at PGI as well as my wife.

 

This is a dangerous hobby, accept it or leave it alone.

[dagabu]

PyroWolf,

 

For the best tooling at the best prices, give Caleb a call or email or look him up online. woodysrocks.com

[dlking59]

What dag said about woodysrocks. I got excellent products from him and he is very friendly and helpful.

[Bourbon]

 

I turned the drum... POOF!!

 

 

 

Static electricity? Hope you don't mind me asking? If you do mind, feel free to slap me around. I'm glad it didn't kill your love for this hobby, or you for that matter.

 

[SharkWhisperer]

 

 

Static electricity? Hope you don't mind me asking? If you do mind, feel free to slap me around. I'm glad it didn't kill your love for this hobby, or you for that matter.

 

There are multiple threads, in detail, regarding Dude's unfortunate experience. And others'. Easy to find, and educational reads.

 

As my good fatalistic Russian colleague Viktor Nikolaychik once told me..."Life is dangerous. A sexually transmitted condition with 100% mortality." Live and smile.

 

Many folks on here have experienced accidents, from Dag to Mumbles to many others. Most don't report them because they're minor accidents or because they don't want to get unofficially blacklisted as idiots (we all make mistakes/have oversights), or don't want law enforcement attention. I have pyro scars. Some notable. From adulthood, not even from the early years when I did a LOT of stupid shit, regularly. I got lucky. Really friggin' lucky in hindsight.

 

It is essential to have eyes open when joining the sport---this is a hobby that involves risk. Often serious risk. It is risk management. You must be knowledgeable enough to assess/calculate that level of risk for your actions/projects.

 

I frequently shoot 3-foot barracuda with a speargun. They are mean and they fight like mofos.Fun. They are also my very favorite firm-fleshed white fish ever (maybe tied for Atlantic striped bass...), and you can't buy it in any store that I know about. Larger cudas (over 4-foot), and you risk ciguatera poisoning (toxin from an aglae they accumulatein some reef fish; not killed by heat/cooking; will make you feel like your teeth are falling out of your gums~). If I don't immediately brain-paralyze them with my single shot into their lateral line/brain (maybe 50% of the time with a close shot, on a good day) then I have an angry scalpel-sharp toothed fish whipping around on the end of my line, pained and pissed off (they're predators) with a 5-foot metal spear stuck through him. (More up close & personal if I shoot him with my pole-spear!) Somehow I need to reel him in without getting tangled in the lines and accurately stab a knife into his brain, fast, to stop the squirming.Sometimes I ride them like a lil' pony as I stab the top of their skulls. Sharks. Different from the movies. The vibrations from squirming angry speared fish are more attention getting than to sharks than blood in the water, and the sound travels farther and in all directions--sharks know it's time to come in for a free meal. I have never given up my fish to a shark, though I did piss my wetsuit more than once contemplating that decision. Divers that give up their catch to nosy sharks are assholes and cause long-term problems. Fucking woosies. Worse, now the sharks (bull sharks are a worry that require serious attention, and are not rare, and you've never been more alert in life than when being circled my multiple bull sharks, all with their pec fins splayed out (aggressive stance); tigers are huge aggressive eating machines but are fewer and less of a worry in general, and blacktips are everywhere but are like puppy dogs that need to be trained to fuck off unless they want to be dinner themselves (I do not recommend spearing a shark--even tiny and always illegal, you'll have your hands full...a 4-foot blacktip is powerful--it will drag you, and unless you have him linked to a surface buoy, he might take you deep and dead). It's wild. Spearguns are generally rubber-band (thick gauge) propelled. MythBusters had an episode where a single-band (mine's double) gun shot a 5-foot spear over 100 yards on land). Lately sharks appear minutes after my gun goes off, even if I miss. The rubber band twang is like a friggin dinnerbell. They are learning that speargun firing/rubber band snapping=dinner. Becoming more problematic over time--many spearos have noticed this.

 

I'm getting waaaaay off-topic. Ball mills blowing up. Accidents. Straight BP ball milling accidents are rare. But, documentedly, can occur. This is a hobby/sport of risk management, and is a hell of a lotta fun if risk is appropriately managed!

 

Learn from others' experiences. Some accidents can be identified and dissected afterwards. With many pyro accidents, the specific causes remain unidentified. Again, there are some top-notch, experienced, and bright pyros here who just met bad fortune. But I'll mill BP forever, with few concerns (but having taken all standard precautions). There are many folks who push boundaries. Unlicensed? Don't care. Spinning a couple of HF starter mills in your garage/kitchen? You'll probably get away with it for a while, maybe a long while, but you are a danger to yourself, anybody around you, and are also a detriment to the art/science of amateur pyro. Spinning metals with oxidants? You're an idiot and you are perilously dangerous.

Edited June 14, 2020 by SharkWhisperer

[Bourbon]

I'm not a strong swimmer. I'll stick with milling and all thee other risks I took/take living in my mid 40's. I certainly hope specifying static wouldn't incriminate anyone or be an admission to stupidity.

 

Is Barracuda a unique flavor, or does it resemble anything else you've eaten? I've never eaten anything like it.

[SharkWhisperer]

I'm not a strong swimmer. I'll stick with milling and all thee other risks I took/take living in my mid 40's. I certainly hope specifying static wouldn't incriminate anyone or be an admission to stupidity.

 

Is Barracuda a unique flavor, or does it resemble anything else you've eaten? I've never eaten anything like it.

Static is a consideration for those in low-humidity environments, particularly in winter. It's never been an identified issue to me in a variety of climates, even in winter. But a can of Static Guard is cheap insurance. So are generic fabric softener sheet that eliminate static charge accumulation pretty well when wiped against essentially anything. Milling BP is done by almost all of us, and some have built considerably large mills and work with large batches of BP/comps. Generally safely. There are very few reports of accidents with BP milling compared to how often it is performed. Of course, many milling accidents have probably gone unreported. Still, I consider it a low-risk pyro activity. Any handling/manufacture of flammables carries a certain inherent risk. Unavoidable. But definitely manageable.

 

Cuda taste? It's a sweet super firm white filet, maybe along the lines of Cod/Haddock in sweetness, and Grouper/Sturgeon in texture. Not quite "steaky" like swordfish or fully cooked tuna steaks. It'll hold up great on the grill. Never met a cuda I didn't like! When I'm not hunting cuda (usually opportunistic), I'm grabbing lobster or shooting every single lionfish I come across (no license required because they're invasive all up the Atlantic/Carib). And if you can avoid getting jabbed by one of their 18 venemous spines, their meat is succulent like red snapper. I think you can buy it at Whole Foods these days--last I saw they were getting $20/pound for filets--ridiculous, but understandable. You won't catch them on a fishing line (at least nobody I've ever met/heard about). Gotta hunt them.. No challenge though--they have no natural predators and are essentially unafraid of anything, so I can literally put my pole spear 4" away and let it fly. Super tasty, too. Another fave. But much more delicate than cuda and will fall apart if overcooked. Tasty, tasty, tasty, though!!! You'll learn to love their flavor even more after the first time you accidentally get jabbed by a spine. A good deep venom injection will make your next two days rather unpleasant. But I've gotten so many accidental pokes on the thumb or side of my leg that you just say, "aw, shit, I hope he didn't dose me too hard", and move on. A good pyro analogy would be a visco burn on the finger til you wisen up and buy a torch. Most times I can continue diving and just shake it off. Swelling and major burning sensation if stuck deep. Worst in first 2-8 hours, but can linger. Not pleasant. But, like essentially everything pyro, this task/project is also a matter of risk management! However, unlike an FP burn, the initial treatment for lionfish evenomation is to heat it up asap. As hot of a boiling water rag your can tolerate--it denatures/destroys the venom proteins and stops the pain evolution. I carry winter disposable hand-warmer packs, but honestly, they don't get hot fast enough or hot enough to be much more than a placebo. But if you give one to a stung Newbie and they seem to feel better, even if there's no marked real effect, so one or two are always in my dive bag. A good deep stab/evenomation has the potential to cause some serious pain and other neuro effects, and is always to be avoided.

 

Let's get back on topic--tooling. Though my diatribe does kinda have something to do with what all were discussing in terms of Risk Management in pyro, we need to get back on-topic about tooling :=)

Edited June 14, 2020 by SharkWhisperer

[Bigmark]

I don't know SharkWhisperer I kinda enjoyed your diving and speargun fishing story. Thanks for sharing that. I have never eaten barracuda before. I was always told it was nasty. Now I want to try some.