Dragon Eggs easily crushable ?

[MinamotoKobayashi]

Hello.

I made this comp:

 

https://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/11523-easy-safe-crackling-stolen-formula-from-china/

 

with success.

The eggs bang very loud, even the smallest pieces.

But there is a big big problem: they are mealy and easily crushable bewtween the fingers.

I used quality NC laquer:

 

https://www.ebay.it/itm/182820643614?ViewItem=&item=182820643614

 

but to obtain more drying time I used 50% acetone and 50% denhatured alcohol (here in Italy denthatured alcohol

contains 90% ethyl alcohol and 10% water).

 

So where was the issue?

 

- Must I use only 100% acetone instead 50-50?

- I used wrong NC laquer?

- I used only 10 parts of NC laquer every 100 parts of acetone/alcohol?

 

 

[stix]

I'd try a version just using Acetone.

 

Maybe the water in the denatured alcohol is causing the issue, perhaps water is being trapped??

 

Providing you use enough Acetone to dissolve the NC - it should be ok. Too much Acetone shouldn't be a problem either, as it just evaporates.

 

Cheers.

 

[EDIT]

 

In actual fact, I just realised that you are using NC lacquer/liquid which already contains Acetone??

Try a version without adding anything - just mix it.

 

You probably would have to do a test first to find out how much NC is in the lacquer - weigh it out of the bottle, then weight it again when all the Acetone has evaporated.

Edited June 19, 2019 by stix

[Mumbles]

Do you know the concentration of your purchased NC lacquer? You probably want 2-3 wt% NC remaining in your eggs once they're dry. This sounds like it may be the issue due to the seemingly low conc of NC lacquer after dilution.

[MinamotoKobayashi]

Hi and thanks for the fast replies.

My NC laquer is dense as an olive oil, I do not know if it contains acetone itself.

So now I crush my weak dragon eggs and add acetone only with 2% NC laquer.

(so I will obtain a total of 3% lacquer).

I think this will be a try and error procedure, until I reach the wanted consistency.

It if funny to ear that the eggs bang loud also if they are so weak ...

[Mumbles]

I think my point may not have been clear. You want 2-3% solid NC in the eggs afterwards. This would be something like 20-30g of 10 at% lacquer added to 100g. I'd lean more toward adding the NC you have undiluted as the binder.

[MinamotoKobayashi]

So, in a few words, how much of my liquid NC laquer must I add for my 100 grams of dragon eggs mix that already contains 10% of liquid NC laquer? I do not know if and how acetone my original laquer contains ....

[stix]

The last time I made DE's I used 10% single base smokeless powder for the NC, then added enough Acetone to dissolve to a soft putty.

 

There may be percentages of ingredients on the bottle label?? Also, you could look at the manufacturers website, maybe they have a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS).

 

The only way to tell for sure is to weigh out a known amount, then let it dry out and measure the weight again.

 

Hopefully someone will chime in that has used a similar method.

Edited June 19, 2019 by stix

[MinamotoKobayashi]

http://www.pyro-gear.co.uk/Shop3.html

 

This laquer seems to be the best for dragon eggs .. anyone has bought lacquer from this site?

[stix]

Why don't you just experiment like you said.

 

Instead of a (huge) 100gm mix, make a 10gm one, then increase the amount of lacquer, take notes, rinse and repeat. You'll get there eventually. Sometimes it's the easiest/best way because we don't all have the same ingredients.

 

I'll say that I've always found the experimentation side of pyro the most interesting.

 

Cheers.

[Zmuro]

I wouldn't dilute this NC lacquer with acetone, just use it as is. I only used smokeless gun powder dissolved in acetone, which I was adding it into acetone until I got a liquid honey consistency. The DE are rock hard and still working

[biffo24]

I've bought from pyro gear it's fine I've used the prills as well ,all good stuff.B

[kaotch]

The NC you are using(sold as guitar finish ex UK) contains a lot of other products like plasticicers , stabilizer etc.Why didn"t you ask the seller abt. the NC %?

You can make perfect eggs with sgrs and pvb and you can use the same formula but DO NOT use dextrin.Good Luck

[stix]

...

 

The only way to tell for sure is to weigh out a known amount, then let it dry out and measure the weight again.

 

...

 

Basic testing procedures. Not very hard to do. It just takes time and careful planning. A good set of scales helps (very important).

 

Apologies that I had to to quote myself.

Edited June 19, 2019 by stix

[Sulphurstan]

http://www.pyro-gear.co.uk/Shop3.html

 

This laquer seems to be the best for dragon eggs .. anyone has bought lacquer from this site?

Mina.

I bought exactly this NC from pyro gear.

The comp I use is Lancaster: MgAl 15/CuO 10/Bi2O3 75/ Pyro gear NC around 5.

 

I never weight really the nc, put it more on the guess...just around 5..., Maybe 3,5, may be 6 sometimes..

 

Then I slowly add acetone with a pipette, stir, slowly add more, stir... etc until I get the good consistency for cutting.

 

The cubes dry ROCK hard.

So IMHO, the issue could be the alcohol and the water contained in it because what concerns me, the nc content is not THAT important, it works well (guarantee!, not like my previous redgum bound crackle crappy composition🤣).

 

And don't worry about the cubes that are not round, the stuff we discussed by PM works well, I'll send you a picture of a nc bound crackle 3 mm cube, coated with jopetes violet, then with pinball, and the with BP-Si, and it is cohesive and pretty round.

 

Courage!

Edited June 19, 2019 by Sulphurstan

[biffo24]

Sorry to contradict you but it is not guitar lacquer etc. and does not contain plasticisers .B

[MinamotoKobayashi]

The NC you are using(sold as guitar finish ex UK) contains a lot of other products like plasticicers , stabilizer etc.Why didn"t you ask the seller abt. the NC %?

You can make perfect eggs with sgrs and pvb and you can use the same formula but DO NOT use dextrin.Good Luck

 

I have SGRS but not PVB (polyvinyl butyral?). I need both the chems or I can replace 1:1 NC laquer with only SGRS?

 

In the meanwhile I will try to use my NC laquer without acetone, but it is a expensive solution because pure NC laquer is pricey!

Edited June 19, 2019 by MinamotoKobayashi

[kaotch]

@Mina.

It should be sgrs or Polyvinyl Butyral (PVB).Do not add any alcohol when using sgrs and let the granules dry very thoroughly the longer the harder the sound of explosion.When using PVB, isopropyl alcohol is your way to go.

Since you already have NC(guitar laquer) start to use about 10% of composition weight .If the composition has become too thick (unworkable) dilute with ethyl acetate

in small quantities until the compostion becomes workable.If you want further advice shoot a PM.

 

@biffo

The nc he purchased was listed as quitarlacquer on ebay. I was not referring to the stuff PG is selling!!!!

[MinamotoKobayashi]

Well, I realized the dragon eggs with pure NC laquer and only a very little acetone part.

I binned three kinds of granules: the first from the right was the granules that I obtained pushing the semi-dried granules thru the 8 mesh sieve and captured

by the 20 mesh sieve, the second was the granules captured by a 60 mesh sieve and the third was the ultra-fine powder who crossed the 60 mesh sieve (suitable for re-using to make another batch of dragon eggs):

 

 

The good: even the smallest grain of the middle batch granules create a very loud bang.

The bad: the granules are still easily crushable !!! At this point I got lost ...

Edited June 26, 2019 by MinamotoKobayashi

[Sulphurstan]

Minamoto.

 

😱😱😱 That's weird!

 

Just a question, when you say easily crushable you mean with the fingers, or with a harder tool?

 

You're from IT right?

If you happen to come to FR drop me a pm and come on over, we'll make DE together, not crushable😉