Ball mill

[Mumbles]

That's the Rebel 17 mill. It might help in finding a cheaper source. The high speed version is closer to what we want. If you can find one for a good price, a quick fix is to increase the diameter of the driven roller. It will speed up the milling speed. I believe stock they're around $160-180. I don't know exactly how to calculate an optimal speed for the hexagonal interior, but faster will increase milling efficiency. You can check out Caleb's mods at www.woodysrocks.com. It's very well built and modded for our uses, but you pay for the quality.

[Bourbon]

I have often wondered about the optimal RPM for hexagonal interior. I don't own one, so I've always been curious.

[MikeL]

I've only used the version that cleans brass (Thumbler's Tumbler). It uses "stainless steel media" which looks like nothing more then the needle bearing material. It works great for cleaning brass. Getting the needles out of the smaller brass can be a PITA.

 

I saw the Woody's mod. In addition to increasing the roller size he also increased the motor horsepower and belt size.

 

On another note, I found an older Skylighter video showing how to mill BP. I can see why there are always comments about how dangerous it is to mill BP if that's how it's done.

[Bourbon]

If that video is the one I'm thinking of, I can relate. It also demonstrates a good way of making flammable boogers.

 

If you're just starting, and your operation is small, you won't have to worry about all that slop. Basic safety, with hi attention will yield a danger rate that is manageable.

 

If you're still unmotivated, may I suggest having a look through justvisitings posts. He goes above and beyond obtaining serviceable BP/RP Milling separately.

[BetICouldMake1]

If you're talking about the one where he's using a screw top coffee can basically everything in the video is exactly how I do it, minus the sketchy ass electrical tape jar. Oh, and my bucket screen is in slightly better shape.

[MikeL]

If that video is the one I'm thinking of, I can relate. It also demonstrates a good way of making flammable boogers.

 

If you're just starting, and your operation is small, you won't have to worry about all that slop. Basic safety, with hi attention will yield a danger rate that is manageable.

 

If you're still unmotivated, may I suggest having a look through justvisitings posts. He goes above and beyond obtaining serviceable BP/RP Milling separately.

 

The gunpowder dust is what bothered me. That and it doesn't take a lot of effort to put a static charge on plastic. Especially here in NW NM. While I'm posting - I have access to pecan (green limbs that drops from some of my trees down in TX. Some years I can get a fairly large pile and I normally just burn it to get rid of it).Is that usable for making charcoal?

 

If you're talking about the one where he's using a screw top coffee can basically everything in the video is exactly how I do it, minus the sketchy ass electrical tape jar. Oh, and my bucket screen is in slightly better shape.

 

That's the video. The plastic parts and gunpowder dust at the end bugged me (see above) not so much the process of mixing in the mill..

[BetICouldMake1]

Commercial BP is sold in plastic containers and many many lbs of bp have been milled in plastic jars and dumped into plastic buckets. I understand the concern, but I think the risk of static when it comes to BP is fairly minimal.

[justvisiting]

Lloyd Sponenburgh's ball milling book specifies using PVC jars made from fittings and pieces of pipe. There are thousands in use. I don't think static electricity is of 'no' concern, but I can't ever recall experiencing static sparks when handling black powder. I'm SURE I would have noticed

 

OTOH, one time I had some whistle mix in a Ziploc freezer bag. It was the kind with the zipper-like closure that makes little clicks as you slide it closed. I opened the zipper and a bunch of the whistle leapt up and out of the bag, and got all over the zipper area. It was disconcerting.

[SharkWhisperer]

StaticGuard spray is pretty cheap insurance if you're that concerned, but I've only used it when making quantities of FP when weather/environment conditions are much more conducive to generating static than usual. Can't remember the last time I used it (years ago, perhaps...).

[Bourbon]

I static spray my jars after milling too, and the 4 mesh I poor onto to separate media. "Every time" It's cheap, and I don't care how good the conditions are. I still use it.

 

I have to say though. When I was first learning to make BP, I milled a crap load without spray. I never had a "noticeable" spark.

[MikeL]

I think that my biggest problem is not knowing. ie I've never made it. I'll take the same precautions I make when I put a circuit board together (ground myself and the board, etc). Static guard spray is a easy enough.

 

I don't want to be like the scene in Stripes - "Where is the rest of your platoon son?" "Blowed up sir!"

[SharkWhisperer]

I think that my biggest problem is not knowing. ie I've never made it. I'll take the same precautions I make when I put a circuit board together (ground myself and the board, etc). Static guard spray is a easy enough.

 

I don't want to be like the scene in Stripes - "Where is the rest of your platoon son?" "Blowed up sir!"

Good plan. Bourbon uses it every time--nothing wrong with that. Always err on the side of safety. You'll develop your own level of comfort with various precautions when making different/new comps. What you don't want to do is start retroactively thinking about safety considerations after you've had a preventable accident!!! Did I mention that you should always err on the side of safety? [:>}

 

p.s. some people also ground themselves when making certain comps, like you with circuit board work. Again, nothing wrong with that, though I don't personally choose to do so.

[MikeL]

You can check out Caleb's mods at www.woodysrocks.com. It's very well built and modded for our uses, but you pay for the quality.

 

Well... I decided to go the more expensive route and buy the mill that Caleb modded. For me, a newb, it may not be the more expensive mill in the long run because I'll actually start when I get the chemicals vs over analyzing making my own.

 

I ordered a black powder chemical kit from Skylighter. I want to get the experience of milling my own BP and then I'll tackle things like making airfloat charcoal (not quite sure what that means. I'm guessing really fine charcoal "dust" that floats in the air?). My Skylighter order hasn't shipped yet. They had some kind of aluminum promo going. I didn't use the code but apparently when I clicked the link it loaded the code for me. I hope that doesn't screw up my BP kit order. I am not interested in sparkly stuff right now.

Edited October 21, 2020 by MikeL

[BetICouldMake1]

You will be happy with that mill. Caleb does good work.

 

It's probably worth mentioning that Skylighter tends to be wildly more expensive than most of the other vendors. If you haven't already check out fireworks cookbook, pyro chem source, and Phil's "general store."

 

Airfloat means exactly what you suspect, very finely ground charcoal. The actual mesh size varies quite a bit but the basic test is to rub some between your fingers. It should have no grit at all, like baby powder or corn starch. Making airfloat charcoal is as simple as tossing it in your mill until it's ground down to that fine state. Grinding straight charcoal, especially hardwood, can be tough on your media, so bear that in mind.

 

Also, per your other post on making bp, you can try the hardwood if you like, but don't expect anything great. Cooking your own charcoal is quite easy and will yield vastly better powder if you use the right wood. The hardwood charcoal from your kit is great for stars or rockets, so it won't go to waste.

 

If you're anxious to get going you could always buy some "hot" charcoal. There's a member here that sells various options. Check out the agora.

 

Have fun with your new toys! You'll be making killer BP in no time.

[justvisiting]

MikeL, maybe you'll get lucky and your 'BP' kit order WILL be screwed up

 

Commercial airfloat charcoal is a mixture of particle sizes from about 100 mesh on down. Much of it floats on the air because of the gases trapped in the cellular structure. Milled homemade charcoal is much more dense, because the cells are broken up and the charcoal does not scatter easily in the air. Some pyros think 'airfloat' means 'fine'. Well ball-milled BP charcoals are MUCH finer than commercial airfloat charcoal.

[Arthur]

BP is probably the only essential for hobby pyro. It's part of rocket fuel, stars, lift and burst charges and can be used with a system of additions to replace most comps without colour.

Having a moderate stock of several grades will serve you well, all the poor powder from under milled batches etc goes eventually to fountain comp. Certain select woods make good powder and some will be available to you wherever you live

[MikeL]

I finally bought Black Powder Manufacture Methods and Techniques. It looks like it's going to be a really good read. There's a good section on making charcoal.

 

Does anyone know if Pecan has any use for making charcoal? I have a lot of that available.

[justvisiting]

I would pay special attention to the section where it shows the reader practical methods for making black powder. If that section is lacking at all, I'd see if there are better, more instructive resources that offer hands-on instructions. A membership to Fireworking.com has all the information you could ever need on practical black powder manufacturing methods and applications, for 40 bucks. APC has all the same information, but in a different format- and it's free. I found Mr. von Maltitz's books to be more about the 'story' of black powder, and less about how to make black powder for any specific application.

[MikeL]

I've been reading it this morning. It's interesting but it does read like "a story of black powder". I'll get there. I'm looking forward to making some charcoal. I've made charcloth and the process is the same, just different material and time.

[MikeL]

I stopped looking forward to making charcoal and made some this evening I went to the local McCoy's to buy an empty paint can and lid but they didn't stock them. I looked around here for something to make charcoal in for a few hours and finally gave up. I was in the kitchen making supper (backstrap) and I saw a metal coffee can. It was from La Colombe... pretty good coffee that usually comes in bags. anyway... pecan charcoal. I'll grind it up later this week and see how it works. It snaps easily and it's cooked all the way through. I don't know how good it will be for black powder. Better than what I haven't made.

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by MikeL

[Carbon796]

Probably will be better for sprak/tailed effects, than BP.

[Jazzbass5]

So, about the Harbor freight ball mill. Mine is the dual barrel version and I only run 1 barrel at a time with 200 - 1/2" lead musket shot as my milling medium. (used for milling black powder and making flash grade Aluminum powder).

 

The unit is a decent foundation but it wasn't executed very well for longevity.

 

How I modified mine.

 

First, those crap plastic bushings had to go, I replaced mine with ball bearings.

Found some ball bearings at a local farm and family style store. The new ball bearings had a 3/8s inch inside shaft diameter. With that I picked up some 3/8s inch diameter aluminum rod to replace the slightly smaller diameter shafts that come stock on the tumbler.

I had to open up the stock bushing holes to accommodate the new bearings size and also had to carefully drill out the drive pully to 3/8s to fit the new aluminum shafts. Then I cut the new aluminum rod to lengh and inserted them in place, I did have to lightly sand the new rods to fit into the bearings, this was done with some 400 grit sand paper.

I didn't like how the drive motor tended to run as warm (almost hot) as it did so I installed a cooling fan above the drive motor, heat is the enemy. A simple 115 VAC fan would work but since I have a surplus of 12 VDC fans I used one of them and a 12 VDC SMPS to power it. (if you have questions about that feel free to ask).

Last but not least was to find a suitable solution for the crap belts they supply. This was easy and I've seen them offered on Ebay. A 4" rubber O ring works great and lasts many hours longer, under $5.00 at the local hardware store.

Instead of the mod I've seen online to increase the speed of the barrel by adding some tubing to the drive shaft I decided to use duct tape instead and that way I could adjust the speed myself simply by adding or removing tape. Mine runs at about 95 RPM.

 

Pictures below.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Jazzbass5

[shockie]

How about the fact? That the longer you ball mill, the higher the temperature gets? Is this potentially an issue? How to alleviate?

 

During ball milling, up to 80 % of the energy that is generated in the ball mill is dissipated as heat.

 

Liked the static spray tip!

 

I found this online:

 

Rub the plastic object with a used dryer sheet, the type sold for the purpose of removing static cling from clothing.

 

Thats how I remove the highly annoying (and potentially dangerous) static charge from the plastic funnels I use to handload ammunition. If I dont do that, some powder sticks to the side of the funnel and may be swept into the next case along with its own charge. Result, very irregular powder charges, some of which may be beyond maximum safe charges.

Edited November 30, 2020 by shockie

[Arthur]

Sometimes I recall the old English tools, usually, almost always metal, funnels made of tin plate and seams soldered, lots of bits made of wood. Sometimes it seems that we have progressed to plastic tools that hold static more readily.

[TamilPyro]

Very helpful topic for me as a new entrant to the forum, thanks guys.