Binary Impact Sensitive Explosives

[poizzin]

Ok I tried a small batch with some stuff that I had.

 

80 NH4N03 ( 34-0-0 fert)

20 KNO3 ( from stump remover)

5 AL (chinese powder)

 

did not seem to do well on impact. 5.56(.223) from 100yds.

 

I tried to light a small amount and it sparkled for a second and died out.

[hst45]

If you want to throw some chems together and see what happens you can, but you're not really going to have satisfactory or safe results. If I were you I'd go back to the drawing board and do some research and think through the underlying chemistry. A successful interactive target is by it's nature a bit "touchy", so be careful. it was a good idea to try to flame-test a SMALL amount and to try to shoot it at a relatively LONG distance, but your underlying formula is flawed. If you don't want to do the math, then I'd suggest copying formulas reported here or elsewhere rather than furthering a hit-or-miss strategy that might or might not result in problems, such as an undesired blast removing digits.

[Mumbles]

The problem is that he did relatively follow a formula here. On the last page someone said they used 95-5 AN-Starmolecule Al.

 

Unfortunatly, the KNO3 just desensitizes the mix, and without using good Aluminum, the mix will be shit. Try using one of the other formulas given on the last page. The Al or fuel component should be up around at least 15-20 percent I would say for good results.

[hst45]

The problem is that he did relatively follow a formula here. 

I figured he was better off following a formula from someone who was at least still alive rather than randomly throwing , say, a pound of potassium chlorate, half a pound of sulfur and a handful of ground glass toghther and trying to pound it into a tube . Better to follow in the footsteps of the unsuccessful then the recently departed. At least if someone lived to post it, it might be better than random chance.

 

EDIT: Rather than being bitchy, perhaps I could be helpful. O.K., try this. Up the fuel to around 15% and loose the KNO3 as Mumbles said. At your target range place a handful of small gravel about the size of aquarium gravel into your pill bottle, film can, etc target and gently filter the powder down into the container. When hit ,this gravel in effects grinds the chems together causing friction and helping to initiate the reaction. Don't fill the containers until they are set in place since they will in effect be a pocket sized ball mill. Do not use this procedure unless you're shooting from well away from the target as the gravel becomes mini shrapnel. Set up a cardboard box about a foot to the side of one of these and you'll see what I mean. This isn't something that you'll want to try at your local range unless your not planning on renewing your membership; this is strictly a gravel pit deal. Keep them small, and stay far away.

 

O.K., time for the safety conscious to flame me... Mods, if this is too far into the realm of the practical, then by all means delete.

[poizzin]

I want to thank you all. My formula was based on 5lbs.

 

my 80- 20 mix was based on 4.75 lbs to give me 95% wt.and my AL 5% was based on the 5lbs. so I had a total wt. of 5lbs. I have used the 95- 5 nitrate and AL . I was looking for something a little differant.

 

Now for the kicker is my bag of usless mix, indeed usless or is there something that I use it for besides oxidizing the lake?

[hst45]

is there something that I use it for besides oxidizing the lake?

Sure there is. With all that nitrogen, it'll make a fan-damned-tastic fertilizer for your lawn.

 

Or, plan B, which might include trying to revitalize the mix with some additional fuel and a sensitizer. If it were me I'd take a small amount of your would-be lawn food and add 10% dark aluminum, and then add plus 15% sulfur and/or plus 15% antimony trisulfide. I think that should give you your best shot (pun intended) at saving your investment. I'm just guessing here, so please try a 10 gram batch and see what happens. By the way, if you'd tried a 10 gram batch in the first place...........

[poizzin]

Yes I should have tried a smaller batch in the first place. As a newbie I got overly excited. I realize that I need to slow down and think. I will try the above and see what pans out. I will have to get the Antimoney Trisulfide.

[asilentbob]

If you have enough of the fertillizer you can add some of that back into the mix to try to balance it out to less Al. Personally i wouldn't try adding antimony trisulfide... maybe 5% sulfur or less... But i might try adding titanium or something... If you just can not for the love of god get it to go off... you coudl always try adding a "booster" of flash + Ti... but this is getting into the realm of HE more and more... so... ill just leave it at that...

[poizzin]

Ok so HST45 suggest add more AL and ASILENTBOB suggests using less AL.

 

Since I do not have any Antimony Trisulfide as of yet , and I have lots of Ammonia Nitrate. I will go with ASILENTBOB's version for now. So this is what I have.

 

old mix

total wt =2267.96g

NH4N03 =1723.64g

KNO3 = 430.91g

AL = 113.4g ( chinese sperical 4-5micron)

 

new Mix

total wt.= 10g

KNO3 = 6.65g

premix from above=2.85g

S = .5g

 

if this doesn't work then I will try the other.

[shagaKahn]

44 CuO

10 Bright Al Flake

 

Standard CuO thermite...this will pop from a .22 Stinger. I make up film canisters for pistol practice or when I take friends to shoot. It's a nice reactive target and the cloud of Cu left over makes for lots of "Ooooohs".

Just tried your 44/10 CuO/Al mix and I'm wondering now: should it ignite pretty easily?

 

Asking 'cause my experience with thermite mixes is that they're pretty difficult to ignite--but testing my mix to see if it would light before taking it out to the range, I got within an inch of it with a nice length of burning visco held in a pair of pliers and it went POOF!

 

(Glad I was wearing goggles).

 

Does it sound like maybe my flake's too fine?

 

This will definitely be one that travels binary to the site and won't be mixed into the film canister till moments before shooting.

 

Oh, and long as I'm bugging you, I don't have any Stinger rounds for my .22. Will Thunderbolt or Western Super-X HP rounds do the trick?

 

Thanx heapz,

s

[qwezxc12]

 

44 CuO

10 Bright Al Flake

 

Standard CuO thermite...this will pop from a .22 Stinger. I make up film canisters for pistol practice or when I take friends to shoot. It's a nice reactive target and the cloud of Cu left over makes for lots of "Ooooohs".

Just tried your 44/10 CuO/Al mix and I'm wondering now: should it ignite pretty easily?

 

Asking 'cause my experience with thermite mixes is that they're pretty difficult to ignite--but testing my mix to see if it would light before taking it out to the range, I got within an inch of it with a nice length of burning visco held in a pair of pliers and it went POOF!

 

(Glad I was wearing goggles).

 

Does it sound like maybe my flake's too fine?

 

This will definitely be one that travels binary to the site and won't be mixed into the film canister till moments before shooting.

 

Oh, and long as I'm bugging you, I don't have any Stinger rounds for my .22. Will Thunderbolt or Western Super-X HP rounds do the trick?

 

Thanx heapz,

s

What mesh is the Al you're using? The "Bright Flake" I referred to is -325, I believe, and coated with stearin. I'm assuming that -450 uncoated flake would be more reactive, and dark Al even more so.

 

I've never tried lighting the CuO/Al thermite with just plain visco, so I cannot comment on it's ease of ignition. I usually used a small foil pouch filled with a few grams of 2:1 Al/S twisted over the end of the fuse as a starter mix.

 

Don't know about the regular .22LR rounds...try 'em out and see.

[shagaKahn]

 

s

What mesh is the Al you're using? The "Bright Flake" I referred to is -325, I believe, and coated with stearin. I'm assuming that -450 uncoated flake would be more reactive, and dark Al even more so.

 

 

Don't know about the regular .22LR rounds...try 'em out and see.

 

It's not really legitimate Bright Flake ala skylighter; just some Al flake I got online somewhere. Certainly not coated--so yes, it's definitely more reactive.

 

Just did some homework on Stingers. I'll pick up a box. From experience, my auto-loader (semi) doesn't perform that well with exotic rounds. (Fires 'em OK--just likes to jam with anything but plain lead bullets).

 

But a single shot is all it will take and I can load 'em one at a time if I have to.

 

Thanx, dawg,

s

[shagaKahn]

OK, just tried it at the range with a .22LR STINGER round, and a direct hit on a full film canister did not produce an explosion.

 

Know my Al's not technically Bright Flake--but I've mentioned already how volatile this Cu Al mix is. Would think it would be even more likely to explode with impact.

 

Even dumped out a few grams from the shot-through canister and stuck a long length of fuse in it and lit it and got far away. It exploded with a yummy yellow grunge-colored cloud just like in your pick.

 

So for clarity, you've definitely gotten explosions with a .22 STINGER round into a film canister full of 44/10 Cu Al Bright Flake?

 

Maybe I'm misinterpreting your formula? 44 grams of Cu oxide and 10 grams of Al, right?

 

Not giving up till I get a target that will explode--without having to buy a high-powered rifle.

[qwezxc12]

Don't know why your experiences are different...

 

CuO was from Clay Art Center

Al was -325 bright flake (can't remember the source)

Ratio is CuO 44.5 / Al 10

Targets of various weights went off from .22 Stingers (hollow points) fired from a Walther P-22 pistol and Ruger 10-22 carbine. The max range for these little targets was probably 15 yds or so...

 

Maybe if you tape the target container down so more of the kinetic energy of the .22 is transfered into the contents and/or add a little ground glass / sand / Ti sponge to boost the friction when the targets are hit....

 

Good luck.

[shagaKahn]

Thanx Tommers, for writing back so promptly.

 

Good advice, to pack the cannister down with tape--and add something for friction.

 

And hey it wouldn't hurt me to put a crowbar in my wallet and spring for some bright flake, so I could follow your formula to the letter. It ain't like I couldn't use the Al in other projects.

 

Kool thing about my bootleg mixture, whether it blows up on impact or not, it still ignites in a most exciting way. (Video next time, so you can see what you've started).

 

Again, Thanx Tommy for your prompt and thoughtful response to my query.

 

Best,

s

[Mumbles]

You don't mention what kind of Al you actually have. If it's an atomised or granular form, the results you're experiencing make sense. It's not as reactive as a flake.

[shagaKahn]

Hey mumbs,

 

My batch of Al is "d50=3.21um." Ain't quite hip to that lingo--but the stuff's

a superfine dust. fine enough to work effectively in flash mixtures.

 

(If anything, I'd think it was even more reactive than bright flake).

 

As in, a little pile of the CuO/Al mixture no bigger than a dime will explode in open air.

[Mumbles]

d50=3.21 means the average diameter is 3.21 microns. Your statement gives me an idea of the source. It is atomised without a doubt. it should probably work. Perhaps it's the low weight of the targets that is causing problems. Securing them as already suggested may be helpful.

[shagaKahn]

Yeah, you punch in "d50=3.21um" and the first google hit is the guy's site where he sells his aluminum dust.

 

His stuff makes very interesting flash 'cause not only does it detonate as deliciously as german or injun, it also sends out these fabulous streamers of incandescent Al--yummy to watch.

 

Meantime, it ocurs to me I didn't exactly pack that film canister tight full. This mix is so volatile it frankly scares me so I really don't wanna do much more than mix it on the spot and pour it in and shoot it. But I could try GENTLY packing it and then taping down the canister lid.

 

Video to follow . . .

 

(Thanx mumbs).

[shagaKahn]

To carry this over from the suppliers thread, where someone was offering Ti flakes:

 

Ti flakes were suggested, to increase the sparking likelihood upon impact by a .22LR Stinger round into a canister of CuO/Al thermite. .

 

As I still ain't heard back from the Ti kat, might I substitute Mg flakes to produce the same sparking effect?

 

Thanx...

[qwezxc12]

Actually, when I mentioned adding Ti, I meant Ti sponge, as the granular shape and sharp edges might increase friction when the target takes a round. I don't know how much the chips / curls / flakes would help, try it and see, I guess.

 

 

As far as adding Mg flake, remember Mg is a far stronger reducing agent that Al:

 

Oxidizing Agent....Reducing Agent.....Reduction Potential (v)

Li+ + e-...............Li .......................-3.04

Na+ + e-..............Na.......................-2.71

Mg2+ + 2e-..........Mg.......................-2.38

Al3+ + 3e-............Al........................-1.66

 

You can make straight-up Mg/CuO thermite or a blend of Mg/Al/CuO to get the sensitivity you want...be careful; if you're talking about fine mesh Mg flake or powder, you're basically making powdered Dragon's Eggs. Proceed with great caution and small batches if you try. Also, moisture in the mix would be bad as well.

[shagaKahn]

Great advice, Tommy.

 

This thread kinda worked its way onto the Suppliers forum when a fellow there offered Ti flakes. His email seems to be filtering my private queries so to fill in the gap I asked there if Mg could be substituted for Ti.

 

But the last thing I need to do to this mix is make it more sensitive. (Mentioned already how easy it is to light). Was just trying to save another 20-buck outlay for a chemical that might not make any difference.

 

And thanx for pointing out that Ti flake may not have the same effect as Ti sponge.

 

A fellow on the other forum suggested adding a little gravel to the mix to increase friction. As it looks like I'm going out alone to the range this week, I might just wear protective gear and give that a try.

 

(If you hear later of my being hoisted by my own petard, you'll know it worked all too well).

[KAP]

Thanks for the advice for the shootable target for less $$$ Mumbles,

I used this particular formula a few weeks ago and we were more that happy with awsome results.

I used my 40cal Sig Sauer pistol and it was a nice bullseye report, no spotting scope needed to see if I hit.

I added titanium shavings and some 100 mesh fines for a nice white light.

I also used some ammonium nitrate and the star molecule Al from a well known source, the oxidizer was fertilizer grade and the mix did go off, but did not seem to have the punch the purchased binary targets had.I tried them side by side.

 

KP

[shagaKahn]

Ok, here's the follow-up on my latest try with my CuO/Al mix. Managed to find some Ti sponge to add; packed a film canister tight full and sealed it with multiple wraps of tape.

 

You can see me nailing it with a .22 LR Stinger round--and still no poof. Took a long length of slow-burn fuse and lit it off, to show how volatile the mix is.

 

(Decided NOT to try the gravel idea just yet; from only 15 yards, I didn't feel like picking shards out of my teeth).

 

http://www.efn.org/~mikemcoo/targets.html

[qwezxc12]

shagaKahn,

 

I'm planning a shoot (firearms and shells) the Friday after Thanksgiving...I'll make up some targets and post the results...can't figure out the issues you're having.