snappy ematch

[robbo]

Its more a shouldnt-shouldnt when it comes to stuff you want to be sensitive. And in small quans. that are not gonna hang around.

Hmm,

chlorate and sulphur is a no no !!

[robbo]

I thought chlorate and sulfur were the major constituents of matches?

[50AE]

Would they use lead anything in close proximity to living/breathing peeps? I’d find that kinda surprising...

Sorry, but yes, they would. I did 4 years in the movies and they did use lead salt primary based squibs. De La Mare squibs were the most used, which have declared Lead Styphnate in their MSDS. I participated in squib loading too and now I'm ashamed of myself and this job. Sometimes they would shoot 300 squibs into a closed space studio with the whole crew crowded. And the thick aftermath cloud...

 

From my recollection there was an international article about this issue.

Edited July 19, 2022 by 50AE

[dave321]

is this the article :-

http://www.latimes.c...snap-story.html

[50AE]

Same one, yes!

[dave321]

anyone on here going to cobra con ?

 

if so maybe someone could talk to jeff genzel and ask him about the FER ematch and self dip kit ?

 

just a thought

[Richtee]

anyone on here going to cobra con ?

 

if so maybe someone could talk to jeff genzel and ask him about the FER ematch and self dip kit ?

 

just a thought

Hell- I work for a living

[cmjlab]

Without purchasing a kit with the proprietary dip, I wonder if it's not a combination of an initial dip in Chlorate / Antimony Trisulphide, followed by a dip in Cu/Mg thermite, final layer of H3, and coated with NC to reduce sensitivity but also contain during initial heat buildup....

 

Additionally, it'd probably require a commercial match head OR the ability to make your own with PCB and 47-50 ga.nichrome wire.

 

All of my homemade matches are mad with 36 ga, and the KCLO3/Sb2S3 initial dip (tip only), followed by H3 dip, and coated with NC Lacquer and Nail Polish mixture. I get a good pop, but it takes a longer time to fire due to 3 ohm resistance (vs. ~1 ohm commercial).

 

*edit* Sorry if this has already been mentioned in earlier posts I only read this pages worth of posts and saw the video.

Edited July 28, 2022 by cmjlab

[cmjlab]

I will test the Dark Report/Cu-Mg Thermite/H3 comp later today and see what the results are, and share them regardless of result.

 

I will also order finer nichrome wire (50 ga if I can find it), as I wanted to anyways for New Years batch of ematches. I intend to just purchase the premade blanks as well, but I digress.

 

One last observation - I know it's not what's in the match in question - but has anyone tried/observed a tungsten filament (off a spool, not a Xmas light bulb igniter) or tried "pyrofuze" (two wire filament with differing metals which exothermically / vigorously react when melted together - as caused when heated to their melting point). It looks cost prohibitive, but I wonder if there is any commercial pyro use of such things?

 

Charles

[dave321]

let us know your results, that would be great.

 

i would think it may throw off many sparks, which are not seen in the video, so it may not be thermite related.

but that doesnt discount the chlorate/ ant sulphide composition with a "containment coating"

 

pyrofuze is a commercial product , it may be used in the aerospace industry.

i would imagine it may require significant amperage to set of, although that would depend on the gauge of the wire.

[cmjlab]

Late work day, but tomorrow is Fri!

 

You may be right on the sparks, I've only made Cu/Mg twice (in really small amounts) and I don't recall whether or it sparked or not, I do recall it was a really fast pop, with some coppery brown smoke.

 

Charles

[cmjlab]

let us know your results, that would be great.

 

i would think it may throw off many sparks, which are not seen in the video, so it may not be thermite related.

but that doesnt discount the chlorate/ ant sulphide composition with a "containment coating"

 

pyrofuze is a commercial product , it may be used in the aerospace industry.

i would imagine it may require significant amperage to set of, although that would depend on the gauge of the wire.

I was looking around at others uses of copper thermite in ematch heads, and came across the following interesting video..... Not the same size, but the gentleman demonstrates a test of flashcord primary ingition to ignite a copper thermite secondary ignition. This was a larger scale igniter, and used far more than a typical ematch would (1g of copper thermite) but definitely successful, loud as hell, and no sparks that I could see.

 

https://youtu.be/9_2LxJcN05I

[dave321]

as you say, 1g is somewhat larger than what would be on an ematch (max ~0.040g)

 

but as you say, there were no sparks.

 

brown smoke is not visible in the fer video, so i dont think its thermite

[cmjlab]

It took me a bit longer to find the time to test some copper thermite ematch. You are correct about the brown smoke, I guess I did not consider that. I went ahead and tried the CuO / Mg Thermite anyway, as I don't think that guy used ~325 mesh flake, and wondered if a finer flake magnesium may leave less of a cloud due to closer contact from finer particles (therefore a more thorough reaction / burn - I'm also not a chemist, so maybe it would happen regardless.

 

1st Fire Pyrogen: Dark Report

2nd Fire Pyrogen: CuO / Magnesium Flake (~325 Mesh), Potassium Dichromate Treated

1St Coating: Guncotton / NC Lacquer

2nd Coating: Guncotton NC Lacquer / Nail Polish (50:50) - provides harder coating IMO.

 

**EDIT** The variations in number of wraps was me testing different resistance with my firing system to see what fired better / had less delay. Probl is I forgot which was which :-))

 

Some photos of materials / methods used to make the match.

Edited August 1, 2022 by cmjlab

[cmjlab]

Here's the results (I left the failed match, in the spirit of full disclosure. I believe I got sloppy with the firing mod connection, and may have broke a wire)

 

[dave321]

so,

no real bangs

[cmjlab]

Nope, no real bangs, though it was louder than the video portrayed from using cell camera, I've had far louder dragon egg snaps.

 

My 36 ga "Kanthal" Wire doesn't heat as fast as an equivalent or smaller nichrome wire does. Not sure that would make a real difference, but I've ordered some 50 ga Nichrome Wire to try anyway.

 

I also wonder if a thicker dark report comp / 1st fire, with no 2d fire Pyrogen for heat, but still coated in thick outer coating for containment - would be louder? When making them, I have been copying directions for commercial ematch and just using a very small amount of KClO3/SbS2 (50:50) to act as ignition and fire for thermite comp/2d layer.

 

In theory, there'd be no sparks, little smoke, but a loud crack from a mini report comp.... I now have to make more..... Thanks, you've led me to an itch I need to scratch!

[Richtee]

What’s the point of a “snappy ematch” anyway? You just want fire, no? No “pop” I mean for normal ematch usage. Crap, the match at the beginning might shatter a rocket’s powder grain.

[dave321]

What’s the point of a “snappy ematch” anyway? You just want fire, no? No “pop” I mean for normal ematch usage. Crap, the match at the beginning might shatter a rocket’s powder grain.

 

the FER "ematch" is NOT designed for ignition.

 

its a spfx ematch designed as a potential noise unit for training purposes to signify a "fatal error report"

[dave321]

 

I also wonder if a thicker dark report comp / 1st fire, with no 2d fire Pyrogen for heat, but still coated in thick outer coating for containment - would be louder?

 

 

 

 

I definately think the answer would be,..... YES it would be significantly louder

 

[Arthur]

As ever there is loudness by a louder comp, OR loudness by added confinement.

[cmjlab]

Whats the point of a snappy ematch anyway? You just want fire, no? No pop I mean for normal ematch usage. Crap, the match at the beginning might shatter a rockets powder grain.

Meh, at this point I've just picked up the challenge for the hell of it. And I get to refine my ematch making process, and test different comps.

 

For example, I've learned that i can get an instant fire even with crimping. I suck at soldering, so crimping the bridge wire is actually faster and more reliable (I've never been taught how to solder correctly, or taught which solder / flux combos work best for which metals, and I learn best by observing in-person once, then I'm good to go). Yes - I've tried watching a YouTube video on soldering and reading up on metals / flux; that led toy ADD going to full afterburn and a rabbit hole of how to braze (and details), then how to weld and details, then how to weld with a brazing setup..... :-)

 

I also learned that a thermite 2d fire Pyrogen would work pretty good to guarantee ignition of shells, etc.... Though I'd likely use courser magnesium, but continue to use Dichromate to treat it since it appeared to help it ignite quicker / at a lower temp.

 

Lots of good info for me. Besides the forums are kind of slow right now, and I'm focused on replenishing my charcoal and B.P. supply. I'd like to have 75 lbs of lift / burst made, and 25 lbs of +20 - 40 mesh smaller granules for spollettes / inserts / etc, before I start building shells for New Years. Sucked running out for the 4th of July!

 

Charles

 

 

Charles

[cmjlab]

As ever there is loudness by a louder comp, OR loudness by added confinement.

I think I agree with that!

 

Any ideas for louder comps? (I don't have exotic chems like boron or barium peroxide etc...)

 

Charles

[dave321]

a further analysis of FER video,

1) FER prior to ignition

2) ignition, bright white flash, hardly visible on normal playback speed

3) slight fireball observed

4) remaining smoke

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7abtsdh2pwxrgx2/Picture1.jpg?dl=0

[dave321]

i am surprised no one in the usa has not bought a kit to evaluate.