Fireball fuel

[MadMat]

I have read that powdered milk is one of the better fuels for cremoras. I recently obtained a huge can of "goat milk toddler formula". A look at the nutritional breakdown tells me that it has 4 grams of fat out of a 19 gram serving or contains roughly 21% fat. From what I've read, a high fat content is desirable for cremoras. Is 21% considered good?

 

[vendrite]

Floor sweepings creamora is all I've used, 21% sounds like a good % on the fat. Good luck, love the effect. Let us know how it works.

[MadMat]

I have tried actual nondairy coffee creamer in the past and was seriously underwhelmed by the results. I have heard of also using granulated naphthalene mothballs. I guess this is a common material used for explosion FX by Hollywood. I am going to do some experimenting with both in the near future, since the weather is starting to look up around here.

Edited February 15, 2018 by MadMat

[Boophoenix]

The naphthalene should give some very dark rolling smoke for a daytime effect I would suspect.

[dynomike1]

The thing about the cremora, you have to make sure it doesn't get packed in any way, or it wont work right.

[Wiley]

Straight gas is my favorite for ground effects. For aerial, I use kerosene.

[Boophoenix]

Wiley, have you ever tested if the internal burst fully atomizes and burns up the kerosene? I know in ground fuel mines to much diesel in a mix can drop fuel back onto the ground. Often times never noticed by the shooter. I would think it even not unheard of with gasoline either.

 

I know at a recent shoot I did I covered my own truck in droplets threwout the day. The following photo it really stands out since the site was pretty dusty and we shot for a couple of hours. I was parked a little to close, but site layout didnt leave lots of opportunities.

 

[dave321]

finely powdered asphaltum works like naphthalene, very orange with black smoke

 

naphthalene will solidify in the mix over time due to sublimation.

I think there is a flaked naphthalene which is better to reduce this effect

[pyrojig]

Gotta add , the cheapest one is sawdust . It is short lived but showy . Lots of construction sites and or cabinet builders have tons of sawdust you can take for free, if you would just ask.

[EJPochesr]

Hi all been following this forum for some time on and off. I have made some cremora fireballs and I have used calf milk replacement works really well. For my launch pot I use discarder empty refrigrant containers. I cut the top off right below the upper curve of the tank. It has a rounded bottom which helps project the BP charge equally. I'm waiting on getting some grain dust to give it a try. Ill Post some pictures when I get the grain dust too see how it works out

Great forum and lots of info

Thanks

Eric

[Boophoenix]

EJ, we place a stainless bowl in the bottom of 5 gallon buckets for the exact same reason. There are some cheap bowls that fit snugly into a bucket that work quite well. We then bag the lift in ziploc bags. Most of the time we place the powdered fuel in a cheap plastic grocery bag and tie the top closed to keep moisture out since these often set in a field for a while during other shooting.

 

I tinkered with a few ideas once upon a time and found a few percent of fine atomized Al mixed with the powdered fuel gives a bright strobe like flash. Which could be pretty cool in small spent consumer tubes. They need to be modified so the demesions work, but you can get two from one then if ya ram another plug into the cutoffs.

[EJPochesr]

Thanks Boo I too put my lift charge in a zip lock bag it great for quick reloads. When you put your fuel in grocery bag is that to transport it or do you load powder bag straight into the bucket.

[FrankRizzo]

EJP - You can just open the bag and stretch it over the sides of the bucket like a trash can. In my experience, you can also use a little less lift too.

Edited March 18, 2018 by FrankRizzo

[EJPochesr]

Thanks Rizzo I'll give it a try tonite

[Boophoenix]

Frank caught ya before I did. Loosely poured into the bag placed on the lift. This allows for tying it closed to protect from dew and such since when we do them they often sit for a while during other shooting.

[tenneyguy]

I have tried actual nondairy coffee creamer in the past and was seriously underwhelmed by the results. I have heard of also using granulated naphthalene mothballs. I guess this is a common material used for explosion FX by Hollywood. I am going to do some experimenting with both in the near future, since the weather is starting to look up around here.

Northeast MO, eh? We lived on a 300 acre place in Reynolds County, perfect for experimenting! Are you able to do that at your location, or must you travel to the boonies?

[CrossOut]

I use gasoline for ground fireballs, methanol for ghost mines, and 50/50 gasoline/diesel for Ariel. If you are going cremora route powder goat milk or sheeps milk works extremely well.

[Boophoenix]

Not a real big deal, but it is highly likely the 50/50 mix Crossout mentions is gonna have some atomized fallout. I’ve got photos of of fall out from pretty near pure gasoline. I think one of mine in the ones I shot that day had maybe 5 percent diesel if that much. There was some residual diesel in one of the jugs when we filled them up. I am aware of another situation where fall out was attributed to diesel, but I was not present at that shoot. More testing and research is in order to find more details.

 

Not that those small amounts are a huge issue, but wth a wind and bystandards or vehicles near by ya might get some complaints. Many people tinker without those variables, but a lot also display some of these effects in public outings and it would be inappropriate for me to not share the experiances I have had or am aware of.

[Arthur]

Most of the properties of a fireball device depend less on the fuel and more on the method of lifting it, and lighting it.

[CrossOut]

I want to clarify 50/50 gas diesel is for my lampares not gas mines! Gas mines won't produce enough pressure to reliably ignite all the fuel. That said, Hadn't had any issues will fallout for my 50 50 Ariel lampares. They are 4" and go off at standard height. And im breaking them REALLY hard. Roughly 2-3 times more burst than most people use on their lampares. At the Standard stand off distance for a 4" shell, atomized fuel should be in such low concentration im doubtful of any possible. risk I'm willing to bet you get a higher dose refueling your car.

Edited April 24, 2018 by CrossOut

[Boophoenix]

I use gasoline for ground fireballs, methanol for ghost mines, and 50/50 gasoline/diesel for Ariel. If you are going cremora route powder goat milk or sheeps milk works extremely well.

 

I took your post to mean fuel mines as quoted since the subject matter was creamora I missed Ariel at the end oopsie. Which is not to say that a creamora cant be done in the air as well like a lampare.

 

I have limited experiance with lampares. Normally just assisting in building them. If they are broken hard enough I could see there possibly being no issue with fallout, but if you lift a liquid fuel mine from a mortar to hard youd very likely blow it blind without ignition aids like Ti. Ive blown alcohol tests and propane blind myself. Id almost guess if you lifted a liquid fuel mine with the break charges Im familiar with in lampares you might shrapnel a mortar. Not that there is any major issue now with liquid fuel mines to be altering lifts.

 

This is my truck after a shoot I did with a friend on eclipse day this past year. We shot a dozen or so liquid fuel ( gasoline ) mines ranging from a quart to 10 gallons. I should note this photo is also of the opposite side of my truck from the mortars. It matters little that there is some fallout unless you are shooting in a situation where it may pose a problem. I brought it up so that others might know issues they may face and can choose to consider the warning or ignore it. If ya dont know your effect and issues youre not being responsible and neither would I be if I didnt mention my own experiances. I knew of the issue and still parked my truck closer than Id let a spectator at a shoot of mine. The wind was very mild and drifted towards my truck regularly as well. The dusty site made the issue more pronounced and obvious. It provided me conclusive proof of some fallout even though I didnt doubt the original source that warned me.

 

 

[CrossOut]

I imagine there's always a little fallout no matter what fuel you use. There will always be a small percentage of unburnt fuel. Main thing is mitigating it as much as possible and keeping all possible fallout areas clear .

[Boophoenix]

I’m of the same opinion Crossout. Since I have a limited experiance with lampare I could see the burst atomizing the fuel to a point it all ignites or you’d be hard pressed to notice any. The smaller amount of fuel used in lampare could possibly be a factor as well with a better chance at a fuel air mixture fitting to consume the fuel.

 

Discussing things we experiance openly may enlighten those beginning an adventure into new areas allowing them to be safer and wiser than we may have been when we went down the path ourselves.

[pyrojig]

Nothing like a sexy fireball with some thunder to follow ... That combo of fuels seems to give a rich reliable effect ... I can vouch for that

[Scotty123]

For gas mines, there's a little of the fuel left in the tube after the shot, because some of the fuel will be below / beside the lift charge. I have seen a trick of putting a few inches of water in the bottom: the gas floats on top, and after the shot what's mostly left in the tube is water (instead of burning gas).