Winokur Waterfall

[kleberrios]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onP4nV271Bs&feature=youtu.be

[Mumbles]

The winokur silver gerb mixes also make spectacular waterfalls.

[kleberrios]

The winokur silver gerb mixes also make spectacular waterfalls.

Would be this?

 

Gerb Mixes

Gerb #1 Meal powder 73 Iron (60 mesh) 27 Gerb #2 Meal powder 4 Charcoal fines 1 Steel fillings 2

[stix]

That first one was really really nice yellow.

 

Can you share that composition?

Edited January 29, 2018 by stix

[kleberrios]

That first one was really really nice yellow.

 

Can you share that composition?

Winokur #25

http://pyrodata.com/sites/default/files/styles/youtube_thumb/public/video_embed_field_thumbnails/youtube/CXEiOY0IUtc.jpg?itok=OZ78nn6y

52

Potassium nitrate

17

Sulfur

10

Charcoal (airfloat)

6

Aluminium (Flake, bright -325 mesh) ( I Replace by Magnalium 150 mesh (droplets witht Branches)

5

Sodium bicarbonate

5

Iron oxide (Red)

5

Dextrin

[stix]

Thanks Kleb's for sharing the comp.

 

I've got all those ingredients - I should give it a try. Nice sparkles

Edited January 29, 2018 by stix

[Svimmer]

This was really nice !

[pyrojig]

Isint it just funny how we chase after the "new thing or the best mix" and some of these old forgotten mix's come back and just kick ass!!!!Thankfully they arent like old man jeans coming back into style lol . .

 

I do dig old authentic pyro . It is kinda fun to go back through old literature and pull up "safe" formulations to try.

[Mumbles]

This is the specific formula I like from Robert Winokur. The original might use meal components instead of meal itself. I don't have my copy of Pyrotechnica II handy right now from moving.

 

Winokur Silver C

Glitter Star:
Name: Win Silver C Glitter Star
Source: Modified Winokur gerb formula by Ned Gorski
Convert from Meal

Meal Powder 65
Antimony Trisulfide, Chinese needle 13
Barium Carbonate 10
Aluminum, atom, spherical, 325 mesh, 32 micron 7
Dextrin 5

[stix]

A couple of questions about Winkokur #25.

 

For categorization, is it considered a glitter?

 

Also, I'm considering testing this mix using MgAl as per kleb's composition (so not strictly Winokur #25). From my notes, I've read not to use Boric Acid as it is not compatible with MgAl. Is there anything else I should be careful about?. My instincts (though limited) tell me that there should be no issues, but it's been a while so best to check first anyway.

 

[EDIT]

Also some of my components may be ever so slightly damp. But since I'm adding water to it anyway, I cant see that it should be a concern?. The comp will be dried over a week or more and the weight measured, so when the moisture is gone we should be good to go.

 

Sound ok?

Edited February 1, 2018 by stix

[pyrojig]

SHould be fine. I have never had a issue with coarse metals in comps . -325 and finer may potentially heat up . Id leave out the boric acid . If your concerned Id make a batch in a firesafe area. I have had -325 Al bright flake heatup and stink like hell , but never reached auto ignition temps. If kept in the shade and out of direct sunlight. It may effect the glitter effect a bit , but its possible to push the limit of this material . I actually was experimenting trying to get it go, and see what would happen under those conditions .It never caught fire. I have not had Magnal heat up , ( not super fine materials) . Dichromate is the preferred material of choice, or pick a diff solvent for making your comps./

Edited February 5, 2018 by pyrojig

[stix]

Thanks Pyrojig. I did a bit more reading of old notes and figured there would be no issue. I cut come 1/4" stars, pressed a small comet and created a long slug to test similar to kleb's first test.

 

It all seems dry after 5 days. I did a small test and didn't see the sparkles (droplets with branches) which is a bit disappointing because that was the reason I wanted to make this comp. I figure that the reason is the MgAl mesh. I believe I have -325 (fine as flour) and Kleberrios mentions using 150.

 

I'm still to do a proper test though so I can't be sure yet.

Edited February 6, 2018 by stix

[pyrojig]

You are correct on the mesh being important . It will perform more like a color star than a willow with popping sparks. I believe you have a wide range of mesh to get the effect your after , even a mix of meshs. Might try 100- even 80- should give great results . . Just depends on the mesh you have and if you have screens to sift it to a size. Some of us make our own cast melt ingots of magnal, and then hammer down ,and mill to get the size desired mesh.

[Mumbles]

Are you testing on the ground or in the air? Glitters don't always function as desired on the ground.

[stix]

You are correct on the mesh being important . It will perform more like a color star than a willow with popping sparks. I believe you have a wide range of mesh to get the effect your after , even a mix of meshs. Might try 100- even 80- should give great results . . Just depends on the mesh you have and if you have screens to sift it to a size. Some of us make our own cast melt ingots of magnal, and then hammer down ,and mill to get the size desired mesh.

 

Thanks pyrojig, pretty much what I thought. Would rather not make it so I might look into where I can get some 150 mesh or even coarser. What about re-melting my -325 mesh?

 

Are you testing on the ground or in the air? Glitters don't always function as desired on the ground.

 

Thanks Mumbles. The small test was a 1/4" cut star mounted approx. 6ft off the ground. When lit it certainly spewed out a lot of material, very noisy too. Looked good except for the lack of spritzels. It has a long burn time, and this would still look very good for a waterfall of some sort. I think the loud swooshing sound would also add to it.

Edited February 7, 2018 by stix

[Mumbles]

I'd try them in a small mine before I wrote them off.

[stix]

Ok, fair enough Mumbles. I haven't written them off, but I'm not sure how testing in a star mine would help. Can be done though.

 

The original test as shown by kleberrios was a hung slug of the composition, and viewed at close proximity which is probably not the best test if looked from afar. So maybe I shouldn't get so hung up on the "close range" tests.

 

btw. With your composition posted above (Winokur Silver C), can the Barium Carbonate be substituted for Barium Nitrate?

[pyrojig]

My guess is that he did not bind the mixture , just pressed into the tube and tested . This will give a completely diif burn .

I always test stars in a gun or mine. most all streamers need moving air to burn correctly and give their effect. Most just apear to smolder and spit a few sparks burned on the ground . But in the air they are breath-taking streamers. I agree with mumbles suggestion.

I would save your -325 for color stars or mix in to your streamers to richen up the tail front, and buy or make your own magnal for the coarse sizes. -325 is a sought after size for colors, and not cheap. So if considering melting anything , make your own alloy.

[stix]

-deleted-

Edited February 8, 2018 by stix

[stix]

Things always become clearer the next day.

Edited February 8, 2018 by stix