Baseball anyone?

[NeighborJ]

For some reason I find myself continually experimenting with various hand pasting methods for ball shells. My latest experiment involved copying the pattern from a baseball for use in place of the disk pasting method. This has proven to be an improvement because it involves less waste and less wrinkles in the surface.

 

A bit of reverse engineering was required to scale the pattern to other size shells but it is quick and easy once the math is done. The pattern can be cut into layers of kraft paper but I instead used a roll of 3" wide gum tape to cut into the dog bone shape.

[Richtee]

Hah! That’s using the ole noggin! Hope ya don’t have any grounders tho

[sora]

Have seen a similar technique here:

[NeighborJ]

Yes, Sora that is the disk pasting method I sought to improve upon. It creates more wrinkles than I'd like, the baseball pattern makes far less wrinkles but it does still have creases. The BB pattern also doesn't fit quite perfect until the outside of the shell is built up enough for a matching fit. The first few layers could be made to a slightly smaller scale but that complicates the method and it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal to offset the extra effort. Edited November 12, 2017 by NeighborJ

[OldMarine]

Though I can't understand a word the Russian fellow in that video says I still like his presentation. If you really want to laugh turn on the subtitles. Google translate has some real doozies in there.

Edited November 12, 2017 by OldMarine

[NeighborJ]

I can get the subtitles to display in Russian but not English-language. Is there a trick?

[OldMarine]

Jason, go to the bottom option below auto-Russian and scroll down to English. I promise you'll learn nothing but you will laugh!

[Arthur]

Cutting curved shapes may well make pages sit better on the sphere, but you will be cutting away paper that could be strength.

[NeighborJ]

I really don't know about that Arthur, I could be misunderstanding what you are saying. The way I look at it, if the pages lay down smooth and wrinkle free then the pasting job will make a more hard dense shell. If the shell is made up of the loose layers of wrinkles then it makes a less dense softer shell which becomes too large for a proper fit in the gun. I don't usually boost my shells so using less pasting layers doesn't make the best bursts IMO. This type of gum tape requires 12 layers for a 3" shell as an optimum burst/mortar fit. This baseball method is just an experiment and may remain that way, the three ring method seems to be quicker and smoother than any other method I've tried so three ring is still my prefered method. Edited November 12, 2017 by NeighborJ

[OldMarine]

I use the disc pasting method and my shells come out fairly smooth. I don't take a lot of picks but i found one I sent my son with a festival ball for comparison:

 

[NeighborJ]

Patrick sheet pasting methods create a completely functional and adequate shell. I guess I'm spoiled by the near perfect finish I'm used to. Can you blame me? Which one is the most apealing?

[dynomike1]

NJ is that one like you did in the video?

[NeighborJ]

Yes but this one was made with gum tape. I made a tape slicer so I can cut the 3" wide tape to any size tape I could possibly need. I can make rolls from 1/4" to 1-1/2" and even fine tune them within 1/32" of the width required.

[OldMarine]

Patrick sheet pasting methods create a completely functional and adequate shell. I guess I'm spoiled by the near perfect finish I'm used to. Can you blame me? Which one is the most apealing?

I mainly build rinfascitured rocket headings or spiked cylinder shells so balls aren't my bag for the most part so I stick with simple and functional. No one sees my stuff before it displays so I'm not to stuck on aesthetics.

My rocket headings are there in the rack for all to see so I do get anal about appearances on those occasionally!

[MrB]

If the idea is to remove the wrinkles, and put the same count of layers on the shell, then this will be weaker, a lot, i suspect, then some other means. If the idea is to remove the wrinkles, and add more layers until you get the same total amount of paper on the shell, then you would get a more uniform thickness, and as an effect, rounder bursts, given that care is taken, and weak-points aren't introduced.

Since we generally add paper until we end up at a given size, i think the later scenario is more likely. I'm not convinced that this gives any advantage over the "flower patterns", and it has the same drawback. it is quite wasteful. If the leftovers can be utilized for making something useful, great, if not i somehow doubt it actually adds enough performance to the end product to be noticeable,

[NeighborJ]

B,your just looking at it from a different perspective. With the wrinkles I can't put as many layers before reaching an optimum tube fit, therefore less layers equal a weaker/less dense shell.

 

I'm not so much concerned with achieving any rigid count of layers but am always aware of tube fit and adequate burst strength. Field tests are required.

[MrB]

It takes exactly the same amount of layers, to build a given thickness of paper around the shell. If these layers are from one sheet of paper, layered over it self, (wrinkles) or perfectly scaled hemispheres doesn't really matter. The only difference is how even the buildup is around the sides. A lot of wrinkles causes a lot of buildup in that area, but none in the "center" of that layer, where the paper goes down smooth. The patterns "we" use have been decided on since they spread out the buildup creating a somewhat even end product. I really doubt these patterns of yours give a better (more uniform) burst then a 3 strip method pasted shell, but as long as you are enjoying what you do, who really cares?

The reality is, you can barely see the difference on a good shell using 3 strip, and a shell pasted using the most basic machines, like those everyone builds. This is a hobby. If you enjoy what you are doing, then it's great. But if the hunt for a better pasting method is supposed to give some significant advantage to the process, get, or build one of those machines. 20 seconds, to 3 minutes for pasting pretty much any single shell, and a 100% repeatable end result is unbeatable.

[NeighborJ]

Umm,B, we are arguing the same points. Yes, I agree that this experimental pattern is inferior in every way to the 3 strip method, yes a layer of paper still has a given thickness no mater how it is applied(if it's folded/wrinkled over it is 3 layers which DO count) and yes a machine can do a better job.

 

So what's the deal? I'm not at odds with what your saying here. I simply tried something new, posted the results and gave my opinion. The BB is not an example of how I feel it should be done. I like to see and read reports of other peoples experiments pass or fail so i can add to my knowledge, I figured someone would appreciate it. Is there any question here?

[Wiley]

You can always rinfasciature your ball shells, then give them a dry wrap finish like the Italians do. No pasting, It's aesthetic in its own way

[NeighborJ]

Rin'd ball shell, nope never tried it, but I'll try anything once. I'm picturing a set of hemis wrapped up as if it's in a candy wrapper. Wiley do you have any pics or a reference to a thread? This idea is new to me.

[NeighborJ]

 

The beginning of this video is the only example I can seem to find demonstrating a rinfasciature ball shell. I'm intrigued and want to know more.

[Mumbles]

I'm not sure those are rinfrasciatured. Italians, and I believe the Spanish, tend to put a dry final wrap on their ball shells. This isn't automatically indicative of rinfrasciature.

 

I don't know if I've ever seen a truly rinfrasciatured ball shell. I have seen images on ball shells that had been spiked, but almost always pasted over with wet paste. I too would be interested though if anyone has more information.

[Wiley]

I've got a couple pics from piroweb. One is refusing to upload. The rin is applied just as you would for a cylinder shell, and the spiking is longitudinal only, turning on the spolette. I've done this in a 5" shell. It gave a nice round break, but could have opened harder. I'd probably use a flash bag filled with good 7:3 if I were to do it again.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FUrsm4NmbLU

 

Edited November 14, 2017 by Wiley

[NeighborJ]

Nice, I like it, I assume you had one more final paper wrap to protect the spiking? And was it spiked and wrapped twice when the pic was taken?

[Wiley]

The ones in the pic are in their native habitat (Italy).

 

On mine, I taped the filled hemis together, spiked once, then wrapped in a few turns of good 30#. Spiked again, laying the strings in between the first. I then applied a "final wrap" of 30# to protect the structural spiking. This final wrap was held on with light spiking.

 

I then gave them a dry wrap finish like what you see in the vid posted above.