Can blackpowder be made without a ball mill?

[Soren11112]

I don't have a ball mill and I was curious if using a pestled charcoal would significantly effect the performance.

[OldMarine]

Can you cook your own? My cedar can be reduced to near airfloat by rubbing between the hands. I cook the pet bed chips. Edited September 30, 2017 by OldMarine

[Svimmer]

Ofc you can make it without a ball mill but dang your hand is going to hurt after making 100g

[usapyro]

Back in my early days before I knew how to ball mill properly, I just used H3 for everything.

 

Its another option.

[usapyro]

Btw, replying to your original question precisely... I dont think its possible to make good performance BP with mortar and pestle without exotic charcoal like balsa or straw charcoal.

[Yus]

It is possible to make good BP with mortar but only small amounts.

[MadMat]

It can be made with mortar and pestle, but to make good performance BP, it would take an exceptionally long time and you have to remember that there is a chance, albeit a very small one, of ignition while grinding BP. Do you want your hands right there if it does ignite? I will say again, it would take a very long time and be very labor intensive. I built my own ball mill for less than $25. It's not the greatest looking, but I have made many batches of very good performing BP in it.

[Hdcr1]

I have seen several methods to make it by cooking it on top of electric hot plate in a mixture of 50 % water and alcohol everything must be ground very fine to start and you have to heat it to a boil then dump it in denatured alcohol while hot. strain and screen it and let it dry in the sun. or press into rocket motors I haven't tried it that way yet but plan too.it is said to make great BP for shooting and rockets. I think you can find a video on u tube. It is said in the mix of water and alcohol there is no way it can go off but I don't know I would do some testing first./ Or just buy or build a ball mill . I built mine from stuff I had laying around .

[Hdcr1]

I was wrong about the heating of the mixture. it must be mixed in 1/4 cup of water then a cup of water more before heating . not a mix of water and alcohol. I can give the entire process on request. sorry for the confusion.

[Hdcr1]

​Just so there I no confusion. Black powder will burn in a solution of water and alcohol if it is above 100 proof say 51% alcohol and 49% water. That's how the old timers tested there moonshine if powder wouldn't burn in it It was too watered down.

[Mumbles]

What you've described is basically the CIA method. It produces mediocre black powder at best, and is rather dangerous.

[usapyro]

If your seriously into this hobby, you should consider some long term investments. About $350-400 for a good mill and media and youll be set for a decade. I have only spent about 3k total on this hobby since 2008.

[Arthur]

While BP has been made without a ball mill for years, professionally a wheel mill is used, early history was the use of a manual stamp mill, there is now no justification for failing to buy the basic minimum rock tumbler, which is usually available for below £100. A charge of suitable lead or ceramic media completes a very satisfactory process.

[OldMarine]

I started with a little rock tumbler and hand cast lead balls (still have it) and progressed to the Rebel 17 mill. I improved my mills as the money was available after I was stocked up on basic chems and supplies. A Harbor Freight rock tumbler was the best first thing to happen to my BP so I'll keep it!

[Arthur]

Most people start by thinking that they can do it cheaply, then they realise that some tools make it better, quicker and safer. A moderate ball mill and media is a worthy starting point for better pyro.

[Yus]

MadMat, grind separately carbon and KNO3/S binary mixtures in the mortar.

[AussieBombTech]

You could yes, make sure the chemicals pass a 200# screen. What I did when I didnt have a ball mill was get a small tub and put media in it with the black powder, I would then shake the living shit out of it for half an hour. Surprisingly it actually worked quite well, i granulated it and it was pretty good. If you have a paint shaker or something like that use it. But a mortar and pestle will never get the grains fine enough to be mixed in a microscopic level

[rellim]

Yes it can. See

[Plasmaniax]

I just use a coffee grinder. Gets the stuff like flour.

[Sulphurstan]

If you're frighten to mill the 3 ingredients at once, you can start by milling c and s together, and then kn, Then make a wet mix.... Won't be as good as the 3 milled at once, but ok for a lot of applications.

But without ball mill at all, i can only confirm what the other guys wrote here: it is hard to get a really quick bp (or only as VERY little batches, as Yus wrote).

If you're a little on a handy guy, you can build your own one, like a lot of us did. If you'd see mine you would just LAUGH but it is making the job quite well since 3 years now.

The most expensive part were the ceramic media, around 8 euros, all the rest was stuff laying around, some engineering and some time.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Sulphurstan

[Plasmaniax]

Well, looks like the coffee grinder broke. Guess it's time to build a new ball mill, because my last one's motor was sub par and broke also. I think I'm going to use a motor from a large broken vacuum. Things at home can get you sometimes all the way with your ball mill.

[Arthur]

NO! you don't start with a brush motor for a mill powder will leak sometime and sparks will fire it. First you find or buy a TEFC induction motor. OR you buy a proper ball mill.

[Plasmaniax]

Chill man, i ain't using the brush motor, I'm using the vacuum motor. Not sure why the choice of motor will make powder leak from a very well sealed container, and the brush motor might produce sparks, i am aware of that danger, but the other one might not. Thank you for being concerned.

[Sulphurstan]

Yep we must chill 😑.

I'm using a fan motor (brush also! And 220v 😱)

BUT I have a thick wooden shield between the motor axis and the mill and I always Scotch tape my mill lid. I really feel very safe about that.

It's like in the job: risk analysis and then pragmatic parades.

[justvisiting]

Black powder can be made by milling the components singly and screen-mixing together. Charcoal and potassium nitrate can be purchased pre-milled now, as well. Using a rock tumbler, you can make black powder faster by milling the charcoal and potassium nitrate separately. 3 component milling takes much longer to make good powder. Don't anybody get your knickers in a twist over that statement. I'm talking about rock tumblers, NOT 'proper' mills.

 

Here's a little tutorial I made when the question was posed whether commercial airfloat could be used to make lift. Yes, it can. In my VERY limited research, I immediately found that varying the charcoal percentage (upwards) could turn a sows ear into a purse made from a sows ear. This was not my idea, I read about it in AFN.

http://pyrobin.com/files/How%20To%20Make%20Lift%20For%20Shells%20Using.pdf

 

The same vendor also sells pre-milled paulownia charcoal, which makes better powder yet.

As suggested by OldMarine and MANY others, ERC pet bedding makes charcoal that is easy to reduce and makes hot BP.

 

Another member recently advised me of his method that makes use of a new twist that makes good BP by a highly simplified method. Once we dispose of the notion that 3 component milling or ridiculously complex 'alternate' procedures are needed to make very good or even excellent black powder, we can pay more attention to fine-tuning the newer simple methods.