Question for people who use rubber milling jars

[Brightthermite]

I have a ball mill from harbor freight. Recently I noticed that when I mill metals and they near the end of the milling process (are about as fine as what I could only describe as fluffy sand) and I open the container to vent, there is a really awful smell coming from the jar. When I remove the jar its a tad warm form the mill and what not. I then pull the rim of the jar open a bit to allow air to enter the jar. But once I remove the lid I notice the jar heats a bit (oxidizing I presume) and a smell like old wine gone bad enters the air. My guess is its the rubber of the jar heating.

 

My question though, does anyone one else have this issue or experienced this?

 

[starxplor]

It is my understanding that milling metals is dangerous and shouldn't be done? I think Al specifically can flame up when air is allowed back into the jar.

[PeteyPyro]

And milled Mg can erupt into a pyrophoric blazing inferno of incinerating heat and hellish UV radiation, sufficient to scald 3rd degree charing of vaporising and melting flesh, falling off of the bone, tender.

But from the OP name, brightthermite, I assume AL is the metal in question. Yeah, those rubber lined Harbor Freight cheapie tumblers do have stinky rubber, when overheating.

DON'T MILL METALS !

(Especially if you're unsure as to what you're doing)

DON'T DO IT!

 

<edited for politeness>

Edited August 16, 2017 by PeteyPyro

[OldMarine]

Calling Lloyd!!

[Brightthermite]

And milled Mg can erupt into a pyrophoric blazing inferno of incinerating heat and hellish UV radiation, sufficient to scald 3rd degree charing of vaporising and melting flesh, falling off of the bone, tender.

But from the OP name, brightthermite, I assume AL is the metal in question. Yeah, those rubber lined Harbor Freight cheapie tumblers do have stinky rubber, when overheating.

DON'T MILL METALS !

(Especially if you're unsure as to what you're doing)

DON'T DO IT!

 

<edited for politeness>

Mg can be dramatic stuff! Thank you for the information though, I was very curious about the smell.

[Brightthermite]

It is my understanding that milling metals is dangerous and shouldn't be done? I think Al specifically can flame up when air is allowed back into the jar.

Yes it can ignite when the mill jar is opened if it has been deprived of oxygen throughout the milling. This is why you should open your jar and allow it to vent about once a day or introduce the oxygen back to it slowly when the milling is over.

[Tim1877]

I have milled a lot of BP in my harbor freight mill never had a problem or any smells.

[Brightthermite]

I have milled a lot of BP in my harbor freight mill never had a problem or any smells.

What about with any metals?

[rogeryermaw]

If you must, look into a wet milling process. Some pros around here can tell you the horror (not exaggerating) of a metal fuelled mill fire.

 

+1 Pete on the uv rads. Can you say skin cancer?

[Tim1877]

I have never milled any metals just BP metals seem way to dangerous I have had good luck purchasing my metals online.

[NtzPrinter]

Why on earth are you milling metals? You can purchase anything you need on amazon.com or countless other websites.

[MrB]

Why do people make anything? Making charcoal is stupid, they sell it in every store, making tubes is dumb, just order in, hell, making fireworks is daft, it's cheaper to buy them, and so on.

We make shit, just to see if we can improve our-selfs, our life, and so on.

 

Some things we make, takes more knowledge, and preparation then other things. Not really a big deal, just make sure to be prepared.

[PeteyPyro]

So true, B. We pyros are a curious lot! A few years ago, I saw black powder being made from urine on the YouTube channel 'Cody's Lab'. Very inefficient way to go, but I was driven to try it. I ended up with piss poor powder (no pun intended) but it did work (sort of).✴✴✴.

 

The point being that I proved to myself that potassium nitrate could be made at the ranch with urine, wood ashes, and time.

Do I make my black powder that way? No, but if the SHTF, I'm satisfied that I could, if necessary. CURIOUS LOT we are indeed. I also still roll most of my cases.

[NtzPrinter]

Why do people make anything? Making charcoal is stupid, they sell it in every store, making tubes is dumb, just order in, hell, making fireworks is daft, it's cheaper to buy them, and so on.

We make shit, just to see if we can improve our-selfs, our life, and so on.

 

Some things we make, takes more knowledge, and preparation then other things. Not really a big deal, just make sure to be prepared.

 

I suppose you could go out and mine your own sulfur if you wanted. Personally, I will continue to purchase commodities when they are readily available and inexpensive.

I just finished reading about all the "horrors" of a ball mill metal fire posted by someone above. Considering there are probably a lot of people reading this forum who don't have the experience or knowledge to avoid hazards, rather than prove your self-sufficiency and DIY skills why not warn the guy about the hazards and tell him to purchase his metals? It's a lot safer and that's what matters most. At least it is in my shop. You described this whole subject in the 4th word of your second sentence.

[DavidF]

The new guy seems a bit testy!

[MrB]

You described this whole subject in the 4th word of your second sentence.

 

Stupid? That has to stand for you then. I cant say that i agree, milling metals is to some extent essential to what i do.

 

When it comes down to the pros and cons, everyone has to make up their own mind. If "risk avoidance" is your top priority, then pyrotechnics might not really be the right field for you. Has ballmilling metals risks associated with it? Of course. Can they be dealt with? Sure. I would consider ballmilling magnesium about on par with making flash, and most of us make that, one way or another, fairly regularly.

Personally i mill magnalium, pretty much all the magnalium i use, is home made, and i use it for colors, and flash.

Occasionally i "mill" spherical, or granular aluminum to get flake, but it doesn't really work that well for finer mesh, it just keep clumping up, and the particles doesn't really get smaller at that point, just smashed together.

 

Considering there are probably a lot of people reading this forum who don't have the experience or knowledge to avoid hazards, rather than prove your self-sufficiency and DIY skills why not warn the guy about the hazards and tell him to purchase his metals?

 

Yeah... Nobody mentioned the risks already, Only 3 of the 4 first responses, were dedicated to the topic, and the 6'th post where TS outlined the risks with milling magnesium, along with how he deals / would deal, with it. You know what... i don't exactly see your point here. Should we stop talking about how to make BP as well? The risks involved are great. Where would you draw the line? Flash powder? If that, where? What kind? If not... Whistle? Ramming rocket engines?

Speaking of risk assessment... Most of us with a ball mill, actually ball mill our BP. That is milling a live explosive. Something that has caused more property damage, and injury, then metal milling, if the casualties here on the forum is something to go by.

 

 

Personally, I will continue to purchase commodities when they are readily available and inexpensive.

 

But that is just it. Is it readily available, and inexpensive everywhere? Pyro grade magnalium isn't available in Sweden, at all, and readymade magnesium powder is cheap, at about 100 usd / kilo.

I CAN import the stuff, my choice of magnalium would cost about 22USD / kilo, and magnesium would cost about 38USD / kilo. Plus international shipping.In contrast i can by scrap magnesium for 2-3USD / kilo,and aluminum is pretty much always 50% of that price. Nice big chunks of metal. If you are willing to work with shavings, turnings, and "sawdust- type" granules, it's cheaper. And, for my purposes, it doesn't really make much difference. A good melt, and then just stuff shavings in to it, works fine. But the coolant residue that is left on "everything" processed makes it less attractive, it stinks, makes it messy to handle, and so on.

 

The new guy seems a bit testy!

 

I'm not sure he's fit for pyro. Knitting seams to be more his forte, but i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

Edit

Right. Full disclosure. Knitting involves poky bits. Might be unsafe. Please handle with care.

/Edit

Edited August 22, 2017 by MrB

[Brightthermite]

Why on earth are you milling metals? You can purchase anything you need on amazon.com or countless other websites.

Because its much cheaper to mill turnings I already have, not to mention it takes nearly the same amount of time to mill as it does for my packages to arrive.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Brightthermite

[ronmoper76]

 

Stupid? That has to stand for you then. I cant say that i agree, milling metals is to some extent essential to what i do.

 

When it comes down to the pros and cons, everyone has to make up their own mind. If "risk avoidance" is your top priority, then pyrotechnics might not really be the right field for you. Has ballmilling metals risks associated with it? Of course. Can they be dealt with? Sure. I would consider ballmilling magnesium about on par with making flash, and most of us make that, one way or another, fairly regularly.

Personally i mill magnalium, pretty much all the magnalium i use, is home made, and i use it for colors, and flash.

Occasionally i "mill" spherical, or granular aluminum to get flake, but it doesn't really work that well for finer mesh, it just keep clumping up, and the particles doesn't really get smaller at that point, just smashed together.

 

 

Yeah... Nobody mentioned the risks already, Only 3 of the 4 first responses, were dedicated to the topic, and the 6'th post where TS outlined the risks with milling magnesium, along with how he deals / would deal, with it. You know what... i don't exactly see your point here. Should we stop talking about how to make BP as well? The risks involved are great. Where would you draw the line? Flash powder? If that, where? What kind? If not... Whistle? Ramming rocket engines?

Speaking of risk assessment... Most of us with a ball mill, actually ball mill our BP. That is milling a live explosive. Something that has caused more property damage, and injury, then metal milling, if the casualties here on the forum is something to go by.

 

 

 

But that is just it. Is it readily available, and inexpensive everywhere? Pyro grade magnalium isn't available in Sweden, at all, and readymade magnesium powder is cheap, at about 100 usd / kilo.

I CAN import the stuff, my choice of magnalium would cost about 22USD / kilo, and magnesium would cost about 38USD / kilo. Plus international shipping.In contrast i can by scrap magnesium for 2-3USD / kilo,and aluminum is pretty much always 50% of that price. Nice big chunks of metal. If you are willing to work with shavings, turnings, and "sawdust- type" granules, it's cheaper. And, for my purposes, it doesn't really make much difference. A good melt, and then just stuff shavings in to it, works fine. But the coolant residue that is left on "everything" processed makes it less attractive, it stinks, makes it messy to handle, and so on.

 

 

I'm not sure he's fit for pyro. Knitting seams to be more his forte, but i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

Edit

Right. Full disclosure. Knitting involves poky bits. Might be unsafe. Please handle with care.

/Edit

i mill magnesium from shavings all the time,but he is right,good luck finding anyone to explain the process. Same with flash,whether u can mix it on a newspaper ,with a screen,in a cup or glass,on a rubber mat with a lightning rod in your hand,with your whole body wrapped in bubble wrap ,and your face soaked in anti static spray,if it gets set off ,your still most likely dead or permanently handicapped just from being near it. It's a dangerous hobby no matter how you look at it

[Brightthermite]

I posted this question over 4 years ago when I first picked up the hobby of making EM. Since then Ive learned that A LOT of the dangers associated with what I would call low explosives and firework type materials are exaggerated. There is nothing wrong with being cautious by any means, but be realistic. If you are mixing a reasonable amount of flash, say 5 grams, unconfined and it goes off and your wearing a pair of gloves a face shield (as you should be) your not going to die or be maimed. Your hearing my suffer, but its not as if this is 5 grams of some primary explosive. Furthermore all the lore led me to believe flash powered is the most sensitive substance on earth. The likelihood of it going off during handing is minimal. This does not mean to ignore appropriate measures if it were to go off!

 

I have heard of and saw a video of a flash fire form opening a ball mill. It is possible! Ive milled pounds and pounds of metals now and never had any issue, now I am still cautious when doing this. I still allow the jar to vent. I once purposely milled AL for 3 week non stop no air to see if I could get any sort of reaction upon air contact... nothing. It has happened to others though so be carful, I say this so people understand there ball mill with metal in it is not a ticking time bomb. Milling a metal is most certainly not too dangerous for an amateur even if it was left unvented for a bit too long.

[Bourbon]

It's spreading.

[Arthur]

The indelicate aroma of over cooked rubber is bad news. Rolling metal shards or shavings in a rubber drum may cause the rubber to be gently abraded.