usapyro Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 Just a random idea I came up with to make shells easier. You know how candles are dipped? Anyone do anything like this... Take a shell, seal the edge and time fuse... Then dip it in a moderately thick 50:50 wheat paste/powdered sawdust paste, allow it to dry, then dip again. Of course, this only makes it easy if your dipping like 10 + shells, then allowing them to dry and dipping them again the next day, and the next. Of course, there is always pasting machines, but those are expensive! 1
RiderX Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 i found plans for a diy pasting machine ill have to see if i cant find them on my pc or if i just bookmarked the pans but iirc materials was only like 150$ well worth it i would think , it takes me a long time to paste a single shell by hand
pyrokid Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 This idea is very interesting. There are numerous advantages to dip coating shells as opposed to pasting. If the composition of the coating could be controlled well, this method could be capable of confining shells with more uniformity than pasting. I wonder if isolated cellulose fibers could be mixed with an adhesive and a volatile solvent to give paperlike properties upon drying.
Arthur Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 One of the benefits of paper is that it does bio degrade so the mess from a display goes away with rain. Try to be sure how the glue and fibre will degrade, otherwise there is a large clear up job to do.
NeighborJ Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 Just this morning I was thinking of how much of a pain it is to paste shells. My hands get cramped and my fuse gets short. I am going to try using squares of burlap pasted and layed around the shell. After it is dry I was going to put a few layers of normal broken paper over it for fireproofing but I like the dip'n dust idea. This could work well as long as it has zero flame pathways. Jason
OldMarine Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 I rather like the disc pasting method though I've not done too many ball shells or headings. A cherry bomb type coating sounds interesting though!
usapyro Posted July 24, 2017 Author Posted July 24, 2017 This idea is very interesting. There are numerous advantages to dip coating shells as opposed to pasting. If the composition of the coating could be controlled well, this method could be capable of confining shells with more uniformity than pasting. I wonder if isolated cellulose fibers could be mixed with an adhesive and a volatile solvent to give paperlike properties upon drying. Kinda reminds me of the process of making Sourdough bread a little. Dip in glue, dust with sawdust powder, dry... Do again. Might have slightly bigger shells, but sounds much easier than pasting multiple shells. I was thinking of wheat paste because it shrinks when dried... Tightening up the layering.
Baldor Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 Why not try "paper mache"? http://www.ebay.com/itm/CelluClay-Instant-Paper-Mache-1-Pound-Gray-036061001007-/322604395836?hash=item4b1cb86d3c:g:uaIAAOSw~AVYqhMe
Arthur Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 Remember that the reason why shells are as they are usually rotates about PRICE for effect. Be very sure that any other shell wrapping method is also cheaper than string and paper.
Nessalco Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 Remember that the reason why shells are as they are usually rotates about PRICE for effect. Be very sure that any other shell wrapping method is also cheaper than string and paper. I agree that's true for the pros. For me as an amateur, cost is very much a secondary consideration. KO
NeighborJ Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) Cost is only secondary to the health of my cramped hands. A wasp would be ideal but it would take years to offset the cost. I'll try anything once, even if it is a bit more money, it's a more manageable cost to absorb if a new technique or material can achieve comparable results with less wear and tear on my poor hands. Edited July 24, 2017 by NeighborJ
Mumbles Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 I think one of the Best of AFN's has an article on pasting with fabric or cloth and an epoxy or curing type adhesive. The layers are stronger, so you need less. When you get practice, pasting eventually goes pretty quick. I can paste in a 6" shell with 13 layers in maybe 20-30 min using gummed tape. There's always cylinder shells if you guys don't like pasting.
usapyro Posted July 24, 2017 Author Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) I think one of the Best of AFN's has an article on pasting with fabric or cloth and an epoxy or curing type adhesive. The layers are stronger, so you need less. When you get practice, pasting eventually goes pretty quick. I can paste in a 6" shell with 13 layers in maybe 20-30 min using gummed tape. There's always cylinder shells if you guys don't like pasting. About 20-30 minutes... It needs to be around 5 minutes total per shell at maximum or it's just a pain in the neck. Most of all, it needs to be a easy strain-free task to be relaxing too so it doesn't piss you off as your doing it. A hobby should decrease your stress levels, not increase them! Edited July 24, 2017 by usapyro
Arthur Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 DIY pyro is NOT a hobby for people who want to hurry. 1
RiderX Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 i wonder how plasti-dip would hold up if used like this not the spray stuff but the dipping stuff u use for tools , it doesnt get real hard and it tears easy u can actually thin it out 50/50 so u get thinner layers and if u dont get anything on each layers finish it wont bond as strong as dipping it with straight plasti-dip probably need a layer or 2 of pasting ontop of it to fire proof it just an idea
Arthur Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 Remember also that hemis are sized to receive paper tape to become the nominal "right size" for the mortar. If your pasting is over strength then it may need less thickness to break right, then the shell is too small to lift well with a standard amount of lift powder. One of the essential features is fireproofing as mentioned above. The pasted paper covers all the outer surface of the shell so fire only gets in at the time fuse ports -which is what you want.
RiderX Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 i may have a can of plasti-dip dip floating around in the shop maybe ill give it a go on a 2.5 inch shell im sure dippping would get it very close to finished size and then a layer or 2 of tape to finish it off on my 3 inch shells i need to past an aditional .225 on the shells so if u could dip it to say 2.800 and then past the last .050 im going to assume it will need a slow flash or whistle mix booster though
RiderX Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 hmm i could pour some flastidip into a mold so it ends up .200 thick in thin layers and then use a hanging scall to see how much force is required to tear it , versus .250 of gummed tape
RiderX Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 as thinking what else could possibly be used and i thought of fiberglass resin, u mix the resin with fiberglass dust , depending on how much u added would control the strength might not even need the fiberglass dust but im thinking without atleats a lil the resulted coating would be to brittle and shatter upon firing , but if it did hold up to the lift charge it would probably break better in the air being brittle and shatter basically into dust
Wiley Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 Using a relatively weak casing in conjunction with a flash bag is by far the quickest way to get big breaks. Can't say I understand the need to hurry though. Like Mumbles said, rinfasciatured cylinder shells are not pasted in. Just paste on the spiking string. Shells can be built and fired immediately.
usapyro Posted July 25, 2017 Author Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) Using a relatively weak casing in conjunction with a flash bag is by far the quickest way to get big breaks. Can't say I understand the need to hurry though. Like Mumbles said, rinfasciatured cylinder shells are not pasted in. Just paste on the spiking string. Shells can be built and fired immediately. It's not about hurrying. It's about not being able to handle any mundane time consuming task. Anything repetitive that can be automated in business, I automate... In a hobby, anything that doesn't require thinking and consumes time... I simply cannot handle without tearing my hair out. If it takes a lot of constant problem solving and thought (Like my job programming), I can happily work on it for twelve hours straight without any issue. Edited July 25, 2017 by usapyro 1
MrB Posted July 25, 2017 Posted July 25, 2017 i wonder how plasti-dip would hold up if used like this not the spray stuff but the dipping stuff u use for tools , it doesnt get real hard and it tears easy u can actually thin it out 50/50 so u get thinner layers and if u dont get anything on each layers finish it wont bond as strong as dipping it with straight plasti-dip Please don't.There is just no way, all the plastidip would be located, and cleaned away after shooting. Take a shell, seal the edge and time fuse... Then dip it in a moderately thick 50:50 wheat paste/powdered sawdust paste, allow it to dry, then dip again. Of course, this only makes it easy if your dipping like 10 + shells, then allowing them to dry and dipping them again the next day, and the next. I doubt this would get the structural integrity needed, to make for a good break. Using something other then saw dust, that gives it tensile strength, might work, but then it's not "just" dipping it anymore, to get an even coating.I'd just get a pasting machine, if i couldn't be bothered with pasting by hand.That said, i paste with strips of craft, soaked in paste, so i spend forever, and make a mess, and enjoy the experience.
Wiley Posted July 25, 2017 Posted July 25, 2017 Ask Brad how he pastes hundreds upon hundreds of shells... 1
RiderX Posted July 25, 2017 Posted July 25, 2017 Please don't.There is just no way, all the plastidip would be located, and cleaned away after shooting. That said, i paste with strips of craft, soaked in paste, so i spend forever, and make a mess, and enjoy the experience. yeah i thought about that after , being i shoot on the farm really dont want that stuff left over in the field i enjoy it to when im just trying to make 1-2 shells to test , but its really slow if i want to put together 20-30 shells for a weekend or bbq u guys that are doing hand pasting with strips what is ur method , i do 1/2 wide strips top to bottom in alternating layers of like first layer is on a 10* angle top to bottom then the next is completely vertical top to bottom and just go back and forth till i get the proper shell size
MrB Posted July 25, 2017 Posted July 25, 2017 u guys that are doing hand pasting with strips what is ur method , i do 1/2 wide strips top to bottom in alternating layers of like first layer is on a 10* angle top to bottom then the next is completely vertical top to bottom and just go back and forth till i get the proper shell size I tend to do like this. But i lay down the "pattern" more diagonally, and change the direction on consequent layers.(Instead of dead on center of the poles, i aim to get the edge just on the pole, and tuck it up nicely towards the side of timefuse on the other side. causing a very slight diagonal. It helps me know what layer i'm on, nothing more.)
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