bobd Posted July 17, 2017 Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) Moral justification: It is morally wrong to encourage in any way a petulant, 12 year old (if that) in any dangerous endeavor. Fireworks are for folks mature enough to understand what they are doing, whom they may endanger, and how to protect themselves. The OP comes across as someone who has none of that. His unwillingness to even consider that his style of "communication" is not helping is the basis for my characterization in the first sentence.I started watching this thread to see if the OP could or would respond to reasonable advice. He will not. I am done.Bob Edited July 17, 2017 by bobd
rogeryermaw Posted July 17, 2017 Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) these people are here to help. what you're missing here *ahem* "money" is that pyro is not for everyone. it is one of the most incredibly dangerous and unpredictable pastimes a person could ever undertake. these people understand that and, as such, hesitate to advise people who refuse to show any measure of maturity. your mode of speech belies an immaturity that we all recognize as an indication that you are not ready to drop your headstrong ways and accept the instruction of those who are experienced. we don't want to see anyone hurt or be all over the wrong side of the law, so until you are ready to grow up a little and display some eagerness to learn instead of argue, i doubt you'll find much help here. you can learn how to blow your hands off on you tube but few there will tell you how to keep legal doing it. and none of this boils down to "why". we don't ask why about the laws over pyro and explosives. they simply are. we have to accept that and operate accordingly. bob beat me to it Edited July 18, 2017 by rogeryermaw
Mumbles Posted July 17, 2017 Posted July 17, 2017 I have zero concern that this guy will ever be granted an ATF licence. If he keeps making the same sort of basically unreadable, incoherent posts we'll take care of it. Until then, if you don't feel a need to help or advise him, just ignore his posts. This forum does have rules such as making a general attempt to use proper english (#6), not attacking other members (#7), and for intelligent discussion of pyrotechnics (#10). Anyone blatantly and continually disregarding them will be shown the door. http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/48-forum-rules-read-first/
lloyd Posted July 17, 2017 Posted July 17, 2017 Thank you, sir. I don't wish you to do anything outside your boundaries. But it's clear you have already set such boundaries, and I applaud that. Lloyd
Moneytheman Posted July 18, 2017 Author Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) I have zero concern that this guy will ever be granted an ATF licence. If he keeps making the same sort of basically unreadable, incoherent posts we'll take care of it. Until then, if you don't feel a need to help or advise him, just ignore his posts. This forum does have rules such as making a general attempt to use proper english (#6), not attacking other members (#7), and for intelligent discussion of pyrotechnics (#10). Anyone blatantly and continually disregarding them will be shown the door. http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/48-forum-rules-read-first/proper english no such thing not attacking members u say but its ok if people in here say how im dumb for not talking the same thats dumb a guy acts weird and says how i seem like im up to something him being paronoid and mental how can a person know if they notseen how i act usually so thats crap to u people hypocrites and dumb he says convo over like he runs stuff world dont work that way u dont run people convo is not over just cause u say so i can insult any of u hypocrites u think its ok to insult me so why cant i tell the truth then grand says show me the door im happy not to be here with u hypocrites and mental people who think they better then people real people i like not people like u the ones who disrespected me the ones who didnt u get respect from me nothing bad to say on u Edited July 18, 2017 by Moneytheman
dynomike1 Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 Fire I didnt know wha u say goes if a person wanna sign up they have to ask u or if they wanna post they have to ask first u got the power cause u said convo over that means u control stuff I see ill tell people u the boss and pyro u right to people using speech to tex who talk like me they all isOk What did he say?
Mumbles Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 Those were general statements and not just directed at you. I meant those things to all parties involved.
lloyd Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) Dynomike,He SAID "there's no such thing as 'correct English'." With all those centuries of discipline, in order to communicate accurately in the written form, in two generations we've erased all evidence of the correct forms of the written word! Or, at least, so he would have us believe. In truth, HE simply hasn't learned any written skills, so intends to impose his ignorance on the rest of civilized society. Eh... sometimes that works. I sure hope not, in this case! Lloyd Edited July 18, 2017 by lloyd
AllisterF Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 (edited) proper english no such thing Sure there is, but your linguistic slang, aka SMS language, textese, txt-speak, txtese, chatspeak, txt, txtspk, txtk, txto, texting language, txt lingo, SMSish, txtslang, txt talk, text shorthand is simply not proper English... When one shows an utter and deliberate disregard to even attempt to communicate properly it goes a long way towards others drawing negative impressions of that individual... For individuals like myself, we have to wonder if you can't even make an attempt to communicate properly, are you going to make an attempt to do anything properly? Thus far in this conversation that answer is "no" it does not appear you have any desire or inclination to do it 'right' and mistakenly believe you know better, and would rather argue your lost cause instead of take honest advise and instruction... A wise English teacher of mine once informed the class to observe the way established newscasters, live TV commentators as well as professional live event speakers spoke... One thing you should notice right off the bat, as general rule most do not have heavy accents, unless their entire target audience also does, they almost always speak very clearly, in full sentences with proper fluctuations and pauses and avoid slang words... They also almost always have a vocabulary that exceeds the average person, and will use less common but more sophisticated and/or elegant words to describe things... They do that because that is proper and as far as first impressions (and beyond) are concerned that level of communication instantly elevates those individuals social standing above those that speak gibberish... Edited July 18, 2017 by AllisterF
lloyd Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 Thank you, Allister. The only thing i'd change about that statement is "... those that speak gibberish...", should be "...those WHO speak gibberish...". <grin> (And that's not a slight, just something 'for fun', to give you a very slight ribbing!) FWIW, Money won't ever 'get' it. Lloyd
rogeryermaw Posted July 18, 2017 Posted July 18, 2017 i wonder if we can turn this cesspool into something useful. perhaps we could use this thread for its original purpose. i know i would personally love it if i could find any kind of help for more info. multiple calls to my local sheriff's office yield only "shoot what you want, cut it off by 10 pm". the only help i could get at state police h.q. was about the license fee for distribution. so i keep it low key and the neighbors enjoy the occasional light show but............. pro shows are shot here which means there is SOMEONE i should be able to talk to to get more information to keep legal and move forward....maybe hiring an attorney who's job it is to study law all day would be the way to go...but like most pyros, i find money is very expensive these days!! open this up for all states and share any info you have about local ordinances and state laws over pyro. i'm sure we'd all like to be able to get to the "next level"
chuckufarley Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) I agree with Roger, and most others. While the OP seems unwilling to even correct the thread title, I feel its a valid, and helpful question, for folks looking to get legal. Lets turn this thread into what it should be, and hopefully help some willing people avoid legal issues in their localities. 😀 Edited July 19, 2017 by chuckufarley
lloyd Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Chuck, we've already given him good advice about how to go-about obtaining a license. This isn't about 'fighting' him. We've done due obeisance to his request. We've given good and accurate information about how to proceed. It is HE who rejects it all, in the support of 'illiteracy'. A lot of good information has already be given. You might want to review the entire thread in order to see the advice he's been given. If this is to have any 'helpful aspects' for other members, it probably needs to be transferred to a new thread, and HE needs to be excluded from that one! Lloy
chuckufarley Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 Lloyd, I agree with you on this. My point wasn't to try and help the OP obtain his license. But I do think it is good thread to share ideas/experiences with other members, of the ins and outs of obtaining a manufacturing license in a particular state/local.
jordanm Posted July 19, 2017 Posted July 19, 2017 I will be making a YouTube video for how to properly make an ATF type 4 magazine from a Ridgid job site box as well. That should be helpful for anyone trying to make a proper storage magazine. I will post it when i have finished with the box and received approval from the state inspector.
rogeryermaw Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 cross your fingers and toes for me fellas, i'm waiting on a call back from my local atf field office! hoping for the best...
dagabu Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 cross your fingers and toes for me fellas, i'm waiting on a call back from my local atf field office! hoping for the best...Outstanding!
bobd Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 Far out! Just be honest, do not volunteer information--answer what the inspector asks, and no more. We have had 4 inspections since we first applied, mostly positive interactions. The last one was difficult--new guy, admitted he knew nothing about fireworks and less than that about amateur fireworks. But we got through it.So persevere, be the avatar of goodness and light, and it will all be well!Bob
lloyd Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 Y'know, Bob, I've had it 'swing both ways' on that issue of ignorance. I had one inspector who knew nothing, but 'made up the rules' as he went. That was a difficult relationship, but we finally got him 'replaced'. (He actually ended up quitting after we had him formally reprimanded for demanding illegal things from us -- I mean 'TRULY illegal' in the sense that they were in direct violation of Federal explosives laws! <grin>) Then, I had a young investigator in the Columbia SC ATF post who admitted up-front that he knew nothing about the material or the craft, and ASKED me to teach him about it! So, they come in all stripes. Lloyd
bobd Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 (edited) Lloyd:Our 'newbie' admitted he knew nothing, and asked us to help. We tried. His main hang-up was that we do not have a manufacturing license, just a Type 54 permit. We had purchased commercial BP on that permit, properly transported it, and properly stored it. OK so far? His problem arose when we took some of the BP to use in a home-made device. He felt that in doing so we were "transferring a controlled item from a permitted person (us) to a non-permitted person (also us!)."His logic was that our permit did not allow us to use material purchased under the permit to use in a non-permitted activity.We have quite a raft of correspondence with BATFE about just what the type 54 allows us to do, but it did not seem to matter. We spoke with him for about 5 hours on the day of the inspection, along with actually inspecting the mag. (passed with flying colors, BTB)Over the next two weeks I spent about 8 hours on the 'phone with him, after which he told me that his 'legal folks' had convinced him that what we were up to was OK. Phew!To tie it all up, about 3-4 weeks after all this, we got a call from another club member who had just gone through an inspection with this same guy. He said the inspection was a breeze, the inspector was surprisingly knowledgeable about amateur pyrotechnics. Then he said that the inspector attributed his knowledge to a "very competent couple in southeastern Colorado with whom he had been interacting!" Edited July 20, 2017 by bobd
rogeryermaw Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 i sure hope the gentleman i spoke with is involved in the process. he was very easy to speak with and seemed to be quite knowledgeable. i told him what i was after and he even offered advice concerning salutes and flash, construction methods and suggested i build beyond what i need for growth considerations. his attitude was pretty positive overall.
lloyd Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 Roger, what office jurisdiction are you under? (what city do they come from when they visit?) I know almost all the investigators in Florida, but I don't remember seeing where you live. Lloyd
rogeryermaw Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 Arkansas. I'm outside city limits so i would be dealing with saline county and state police. I tried to start with the fire marshall's and was directed to the atf field office. My assumption is that i will be working with the atf agents out of little rock.
lloyd Posted July 20, 2017 Posted July 20, 2017 Sorry I can't help there. I know them all here (because they used to be all dispatched out of Tallahassee or Jacksonville). Over the years, we watched them set up four more district offices, but the names and faces didn't change. Fortunately, the only two BAD investigators are gone. One retired, and the other quit after a "severe reprimand" <grin>. Lloyd
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