Getting a license fireworks

[AllisterF]

They were even being taught that things like spelling, punctuation, and cursive writing were "unimportant"; that the only really important thing was what a student was thinking and feeling

 

Pretty much the status quo in a lot of school districts now, it's not about doing it right or getting the right answer anymore, as long as you 'try' it's good enough... All the school districts in my area stopped teaching cursive years ago, we have a family friend whose kid just graduated high school and he was never taught cursive and struggles to read it and can't wright it beyond his signature, I just can't wrap my head around it... He also can't spell or punctuate since all his homework from pretty much 1st grade was done on laptops/tablets with predictive punctuation and spell check... On the other hand, my daughter, that we home school, just finished 1st grade and can read/write equally well in both print and cursive she wrote a short letter and drew a picture for her old pre-school teacher and the teachers jaw dropped and she had to take a double take when she saw it all written in cursive... I'm far from a great speller, and thus appreciate spell check but only as a tool to assist me, not something I need to depend upon...

[AllisterF]

i suppose a lot of it is up to the interpretation of the inspecting authority....

 

I have little experience with ATF 'explosive' authorities, but I can state with authority that when it comes to ATF 'firearm' authorities the interpretations can be all over the place depending upon who you ask and what time of day it is, especially when it comes to your local inspectors/agents, thus the reason at least in regards to firearms the term 'get it in writing' is driven home quite often...

Edited July 15, 2017 by AllisterF

[lloyd]

"so am i reading it correctly in that neither flash nor "salutes" may be stored in a type 4 unless they are a constituent of a device that contains other pyrotechnic elements? so even flash devices below the threshold to be classified as a salute may not be stored in a type 4 magazine? i wonder at what point it goes from a salute to a lesser classification? add some titanium and black powder? or must it perform otherwise? i suppose a lot of it is up to the interpretation of the inspecting authority..."

----

Roger, that's approximately correct. If it's ONLY a salute, unless it's "mixed with color shells", it cannot be stored in a type 4. A box of straight salutes cannot be stored in a type 4. A bag of flash, a bucket of flash, no.

 

"Amplified" lift powder, with BP and flash... probably up to the local ATF investigator. They have a great deal of personal leeway in interpreting SOME of the regs.

 

 

Lloyd

Edited July 15, 2017 by lloyd

[lloyd]

"On the other hand, my daughter, that we home school, just finished 1st grade and can read/write equally well in both print and cursive she wrote a short letter and drew a picture for her old pre-school teacher and the teachers jaw dropped and she had to take a double take when she saw it all written in cursive."

------------------

Allister,

 

All three of my children were in public schools, and we pulled them out with my daughter in the 2nd grade, and my son in the 4th. My younger son was in the March of Dimes clinic.

 

We home-schooled them under The Calvert School program (the one US overseas diplomats use for their children). Both the older kids graduated high school with GEDs and both were admitted to college. My older son scored the highest score ever recorded in Florida on the GED.

 

My younger son is severely retarded with Cerebral Palsy. We were told to just "put him in a home, and forget him, because he'll never walk, talk, or do anything past about a 1-year-old's capabilities". We home-schooled him, too.

 

He now reads at about a 4th-grade level, writes, speaks with a "CP slur" but clearly enough to understand, is VERY social, mobile, and a really good guy. And he's a CHAMPION video game player, and a really serious fan of major-league baseball! So much for "giving up on him"!!!

Lloyd

[rogeryermaw]

it's incredible just how far a little love and determination can push someone beyond the expectations of "medical experts"

 

good stuff Lloyd!

[Newbiepyro]

Lloyd,

That's fantastic about your son! Not only your son, but your other children as well.

Lloyd,

That's fantastic about your son! Not only your son, but your other children as well.

[lloyd]

Yeah... we're pretty happy how that all turned out. To "do it right", I even built a proper (small) schoolhouse about 200' from our house, with bookshelves, a decent (if not replete) library, a teacher's desk, blackboards, and (Florida) AC. They went to school THERE, not in the house. They came in the house for lunch, then went back to the schoolhouse for a standard school day. My wife, Linda, taught 'general studies', and I taught math and science.

 

That gave it a 'formal' flair and an atmosphere that discouraged distractions. And it worked.

 

My youngest - Erik - is now 39 years old, and at about the same academic level he was at 17 -- about 4th grade level; but he's MUCH more social and friendly than any 10-year-old I've ever met. Everyone in the stores loves him when Mom takes him shopping. He remembers all their names, greets them by name, and is almost always in a cheerful mood.

 

Thanks,

Lloyd

[Moneytheman]

I dont use marks or what u call punctuation its not real people dont say exclamation periods or commas in person or when they talk on the phone I know on phone and in person u can tell by the way a person sounds but I read the same way I talk and using marks is just not real i like being real

[Mumbles]

Not that this thread needs to get any more off topic. Chalk it up to whatever you want, but it comes off as lazy, unintelligent, and careless.

 

Speech includes pauses, tonal cues, and forms of emphasis that are represented in text by various punctuation marks. If someone speaks in a monotone stream of consciousness format I'm going to think they're unintelligent too.

[braddsn]

Newbiepyro, there are some things you will find as you dig in deeper and do more research. I have spent a total of more than 3 hours on the phone with Wetzel. I was honest with him about everything, including things that I 'may' have done illegally and not knowing it. He is a good guy, and simply wants to help, I found that out fairly quickly. On the insurance, you will find that there are only a handful (less than 5 possibly) of companies that handle pyro insurance. Ryder,Rosacker, McCue & Huston Insurance is the company I used to shoot my city show. But regardless of which company you go with, they average about 3,600.00 per year. Trust me, you can look far and wide, but that's about what you are gonna pay, give or take a couple hundred. I am not sure what State Farm told you, but they are wrong. State Farm will not suffice, according to Wetzel and every other company I have talked to about it. When you apply for a license in Illinois, you must present proof of insurance upon application. You must also show that you are a company (LLC, or whatever), you must have your magazine approved by the state fire marshal, take the IDNR explosives course and pass the test.....then and ONLY then will you go ahead and get your Type 54. Once that is all done, you are all set. BUT.... this scenario is not feasable for 'most' guys. Now maybe you are wealthy and it's not a problem.. in that case go for it.. but for me, I can't be shelling out 3,600.00 per year for insurance I only use on the 4th. Everyone I have talked to, including Wetzel, agrees that the "way to go" if you wanna shoot 1.3 in Illinois is to get hired by a company already licensed in illinois as a shooter, and become an "Employee Possessor". Build a magazine, get your CDL license with hazmat endorsement, then you are all set. You will be shooting under the companies ATF license and under their insurance.. you are not out any money (maybe a couple hundred bucks, plus the cost of a magazine), and you will get paid to shoot fireworks displays. This is the route I am going. Let me know if you have any more questions. I will be talking to Wetzel again on Monday so if you have anything you want me to ask him, I will.

[Moneytheman]

That sounds like the way to go brad insurance is overpriced out there

[Newbiepyro]

Brad,

 

After reading over your post, I took a second look at the quote i was giving by state farm. It seems that the 1.5mil split was for personal and property only. I'm assuming they either did not understand the request I was making, or simply blew it off. After talking with our local agent, it seems that they do not even offer pyrotechnics insurance at all. Atleast not in our state. (For anyone else reading, Illinois) however I did manage to look into CSI (combined specialities international, Inc) They seem to be fair at 5/5mil for just under $2900 for 12 months. Just thought I'd share that information for you. My only question that I would have for the fire Marshall would be, does the insurance have to be purchased from the state that the show is being shoot in? I wouldn't image it does, however, I've search everywhere in our state regulations and I can't seem to find this particular answer.

Thanks

[dagabu]

Pretty sure the clubs I attend use CSI and neither of them are located in the state CSI is located in. My wife may have more information, she is a broker, Ill post that if I can get her to dig up another company.

[jordanm]

Money I definitly thought you were not native to the USA. If you have been eduacated in the US then your teachers have failed you. I was only answering your questions under the assumption that you were foreign. Like the rest of our conversations we've had with you, you lack the effort to even have decent grammar. I by no means follow the English language perfectly but at least people can read what I write, which is the goal of language. I really hope you do not obtain an ATF permit after observing your questions and comments on this thread for the simple fact that you lack the ambition to want to do things the right way. You can continue to shoot your consumer fireworks and I hope you do not harm yourself or anyone else.

[OldMarine]

I had to cut off a conversation with him since I didn't like the direction it was headed. Made my short hairs stand up.

[dagabu]

Looks like voice to text.

[OldMarine]

If that's voice to text he speaks shitty English. Mine will actually pick a real word rather than incoherent babble. Done with the dude because he gives me a bad vibe.

[Moneytheman]

How do I give a bad vibe u mental hypocrite u need help acting weird all of sudden people like u is why I dont respond much online u mental Edited July 17, 2017 by Moneytheman

[OldMarine]

How do I give a bad vibe u mental hypocrite u need help acting weird all of sudden people like u is why I dont respond much online u mental

I no idea what you are talking about nor do I care to know. You only seem interested in making or buying salutes, so as I said in the message: This conversation is over. If mumbles can't open the message thread I'll cut and paste it here to let others judge which of us is a hypocrite or has bad intentions.

[starxplor]

The use of 'u' instead of 'you' would suggest a lack of speech to text...

[braddsn]

Newbie, the companies that provide insurance for pyrotechnicians and/or pyrotechnic companies are few. There are maybe only 4 or 5. These companies provide insurance regardless of what state you are located in. When I shot the show for my city on the 4th this year, the company that provided my insurance was from out of state. For most folks (NOT in Illinois), they can simply purchase insurance for the day they are going to have the display, and don't have to carry it year round. This price, for a 1 day display, runs about 1,700.00. However, in Illinois, you must provide proof of insurance upon application for a state license. Thus, you have to have a policy in place, and pay the expensive premium. So for 'most' guys, this makes it too costly to shoot 1.3. It weeds out the guys who just want to shoot big fireworks for the hell of it. (Hopefully that makes sense, that's how Wetzel explained it). I see and understand the reasons. 1.3 fireworks are extremely dangerous and very unforgiving if mishandled. We, as pyro hobbyists, tend to 'get used' to handling the fireworks we build... 3,4,5,6 inch shells.... no big deal I have built thousands of them. I too take em for granted. Wetzel told me a story about an accident in the late 90's that happened in Alton, IL. You can google it and read about it in detail. In short, there was a barge display on the river. A fella accidentally loaded an 8 into a 10 inch gun. When the shell fired, it went about 15 feet, then promptly fell back onto the deck. When the shell broke, 1 guy was instantly killed, and 2 others fell into the river and drowned. That accident had a lot to do with some laws being tightened in Illinois. Also, 9/11 didn't help! The ATF agent that I spoke with was very clear that every single 1.3 shell that is in circulation is treated as a bomb... period. That's right, when one goes missing, here comes the bomb squad/ATF. No and's, if's, or but's. Wetzel has convinced me that the only realistic way that I am going to shoot 1.3 is to become an employee possessor for a pyrotechnic company. That is what I am in the process of doing. It is an extreme pain in the a$$. I have to 1) Get my CDL with hazmat endorsement. 2) Take the IDNR blasting course and pass the test. 3) Build a proper type 4 magazine and have it inspected by the state fire marshal, and 4) Shoot a few shows with the company then become officially hired, and lastly, get fingerprinted about 9 thousand times and pass all the background checks. I will keep ya posted on my progress.. I am going for it simply because 2 cities (my hometown and another city close by) want me to shoot their display next year... and shooting 1.4 only is not going to suffice. Sorry I wrote a tome, but maybe this long drawn out rambling will help some folks from Illinois.

[dynomike1]

Here is a statement to think about. After my last inspection, when ATF got through with me. The last thing they said to me on the way out. (I bet on the next inspection your magazine won't have anything in it.) I thought you dam right. Brad you like me State wise. As long as nothing happens you probably wont have any trouble where you live, unless you get brave with it and start branching out. As far as ATF just shoot for H. E. in Agriculture you bypass a lot of regs. There easier to get that way. I am sure y'all have Beavers. Of course just dont store anything in your Mag.

Edited July 17, 2017 by dynomike1

[Moneytheman]

Fire I didnt know wha u say goes if a person wanna sign up they have to ask u or if they wanna post they have to ask first u got the power cause u said convo over that means u control stuff I see ill tell people u the boss and pyro u right to people using speech to tex who talk like me they all is

[dagabu]

This is craziness. I do all my posting using speech to text and I hardly ever have problems with spelling or punctuation.

[lloyd]

Mumbles,

Is there anything you can feel 'morally justified' in doing about this?

 

Lloyd

Edited July 17, 2017 by lloyd