Working with a spindle remover

[mabuse00]

I have a question concerning the removal of spindles, especially very long ones, using a spindle remover.
I remember that people wrote about having issues with worn out or stripped threading on spindles.


My thought is that some tooling sets are made from aluminium and that this might not be such an issue with the harder (but still not very hard) stainless steel...
How do you feel about this, whats the common experience?


Since all tooling sellers make them this way
http://www.woodysrocks.com/store/p126/Spindle_Removal_Tool.html
the idea seems sound (or they like to sell extra spindles hehe)...

[OldMarine]

I have stainless spindles and as long as you make sure the bolt on the puller is fully seated in the spindle there's little chance of damaging the threads.

[DavidF]

I have 1# and 3# tooling with very long TR-style spindles. Removing the spindles from nozzled rockets in the 3# size can be quite annoying. My rockets are mostly nozzleless, and then it's no big deal at all. I use Caleb's spindle removers. I fully seat my removal bolt, and back it off half a turn before tightening the nut. It's easier to remove if you do that.

[mabuse00]

Thanks you.

 

So its a viable concept.

[mikeee]

In this case ignore what your mother told you and polish your spindle often and you won't get stuck.

[dagabu]

From a purely mechanical standpoint, it's always a good idea to make sure you have no burrs on your spindle but also consider using anti-seize on the removal screw. With anti seize it is much less likely that you will pull out the threads while you're using the removal screw.

Edited July 5, 2017 by dagabu

[dagabu]

For the really sticky fuels, I use either my brass spindle that has the opposing nuts or the press to pop off removal system I made a couple years ago. I had no luck using the spindle removal tools that others are making, I pressed with way too much pressure and there is no way a simple screw was enough to remove those spindles from sticky benzoate.

Edited July 5, 2017 by dagabu

[DavidF]

Dave, your Acme screw system is a great idea! I would buy a 1# BP set with that system if you wanted to make one. Sometimes I twist a motor off the spindle, and in that case, I use the Visegrip method on the top end. Instead of sticking just a dowel in the tube, I use the knurled end of one of Caleb's bulkhead forming tools to get more grip on the inside.

[dagabu]

David, It would be a long time if I were to make another one, Caleb makes such good tooling that I am getting them from him myself. I would ask him and see if he can get the parts needed?

 

I wont twist whistle no matter what. Two rockets in two years go off at or next to my table because of twisting? I am done with that forever.

[DavidF]

Dave, your concept is not understood, I think. I would love to own a set of tooling that exemplifies it- for my tooling museum Caleb is my tooling guy already. I love to experiment with different methods of doing things.

 

Too bad about your whistle 'close encounters'. I have always found it interesting how the safety-oriented folks talk about this and that, and NOBODY has concerns about strobe rockets. They are cool though- for rockets that have hard, gritty metal jammed around much of the spindle, bottomed and topped with whistle fuel. What could go wrong?

[dagabu]

Dave, your concept is not understood, I think. I would love to own a set of tooling that exemplifies it- for my tooling museum Caleb is my tooling guy already. I love to experiment with different methods of doing things.

 

Too bad about your whistle 'close encounters'. I have always found it interesting how the safety-oriented folks talk about this and that, and NOBODY has concerns about strobe rockets. They are cool though- for rockets that have hard, gritty metal jammed around much of the spindle, bottomed and topped with whistle fuel. What could go wrong?

 

There's not really that much to it. ACME rod, 2 ACME nuts, silver solder and a lathe.

 

BTW- Strobe has whistle up to the TIP of the spindle and strobe ONLY above the spindle. Never seen or heard of the strobe rockets you mention above...

 

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by dagabu

[DavidF]

Well, I don't know what kind of strobe rockets you bin makin' Dave, but they don't sound very loud! Pyro adventurers all over the continent are pressing magnalium-laced AP strobe comp up most of the spindle- for years now! I'm one of 'em. But I just clamp my cheeks together when I do it- and use a blast shield

 

Here is a little clip of Caleb's spindle removal tool in action, withdrawing the long (Caleb) spindle from a nozzleless 3lb motor. This has been a paid endorsement.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2BGMK1bzcE

[mabuse00]

Thanks again guys.

 

If one uses the method in the video, is there anything one can do to make it as lasting as possible?

Just brainstorming now.

->The screws calibre should be a large as possibly can be fitted.

 

 

If we are extremely paranoid, a rammer remover is needed also. I mostly pull them out by twisting, because the tend to stick too

[Baldor]

Seems a safe method to me. Just make sure the screw is nicely screwed in the spindle.

 

As large as can be fitted have it's limits. Thread diameter should not be bigger than 1/3 the spindle diameter in the base to be in the safe side. Threaded hole depth should be at least 2x thread diameter, so you can screw 1.5x the screw diameter. If the spindle is aluminium, you can use threaded inserts to have a tougher tread. Following this recommendations, you must be an ogre to destroy the thread.

[DavidF]

I used the example I did just to put stuff in perspective. For a 1lb rocket, the motor just pops off so easily a kid could do it. I would have no concerns about the threads at all. For the long 3lb nozzleless motor I showed, same thing. For a 3lb nozzled, long-spindled motor, it will be more difficult than I showed. In that case, I would be concerned about the longevity of the tooling. In that case- even though I haven't tried it- I think Dave's tooling would be best suited to the task. I guess it all depends on what kind of motors we mainly make. I like staying open to new ideas, just in case something else comes along that makes life easier

[Baldor]

Of course Dave's tooling seems indestructible. The soldering will fail before the thread fails. Also, it's more difficult to manufacture.

 

In an 1" spindle, you can thread a 1/2" hole in the base without problems, as long as you make the base long enough. (Before I said 1/3, but 1/2 the diameter is also good). As said, you must be an ogre to break a properly made 1/2" thread. There are better solutions, but they have their tradeofs. I will be experimenting with some soon.

 

Also, a broken thread could be repaired, and even make it stronger with inserts. Some of the other solutions are not repairable if broken.

[dagabu]

Of course Dave's tooling seems indestructible. The soldering will fail before the thread fails. Also, it's more difficult to manufacture.

 

In an 1" spindle, you can thread a 1/2" hole in the base without problems, as long as you make the base long enough. (Before I said 1/3, but 1/2 the diameter is also good). As said, you must be an ogre to break a properly made 1/2" thread. There are better solutions, but they have their tradeofs. I will be experimenting with some soon.

 

Also, a broken thread could be repaired, and even make it stronger with inserts. Some of the other solutions are not repairable if broken.

 

That said, the soldering is not under great shear or stress so it will not fail. It simple attaches the two portions together allowing the bottom nut to sit stability on the press. The surface area and the hard solder is a nice combination for this task and I can even braze in silver for a stronger joint.

[Baldor]

Yours is a great design for on off tools, Dave, no offence intended. Specially the bit about only extracting the "core" part of the spindle, but not the part that forms the plug, this removes a lot of stress from the motor during the extraction.

 

But for a commercial design, even in short runs, it's too expensive and complicated, this is what I intended to say. Some thougt about reducing parts count, raw material price (Acme rod it's more expensive than plain inox stock), and machining steps, and you have a very nice comercial desing. A little more expensive than the traditional ones, but indestructible.

[dagabu]

Commercially, the hydraulic ram pulls the rammer out via hydraulic force, no twisting and its done in a gang of rockets, not one by one usually. They can also be pressed in a turret, such as using the ESTES design. Yes, ACME threaded stock is several times more expensive than stainless steel (Frenchies call it inox).

[lloyd]

Yeah, but ACME-thread stock is better-suited to repeated, relatively high-torque applications where movement is desired, instead of 'securement'.

 

Despite the objections, ACME rod is the right choice for that purpose.

 

Lloyd

[dagabu]

AND- It's really cool to look at to!

[Baldor]

Commercially, I pretended to mean "selling tools to hobbyists". The final price of the tool it's very important in this niche market :-)

 

Some years ago, I could have shown you the use of some K12.9 M12 screws for extracting inserts in injection molds. The beating the screws were sufering was brutal, but the tools worked for years. Or you can see any bearing extractor, and see what kind of threads are used.

 

The usefulness of ACME thread is not the torque you can apply, it's the precision and repeatibility of the movements you can do with the appropriate nut.

 

Of course, your tool looks awesome, Dave.

[dagabu]