Best blue composition?

[Doloy]

Hi everyone,

 

Until now I've tried 3 blue compositions;

 

AP 82

Copper benzoate 12

Dextrine 5

 

 

AP 60

Sulfur 18

Black copper oxide 20

Dextrine 3

Red gum 6

 

 

KP 62

Hexamine 10

Copper oxide black 13

Parlon 15

 

 

They're all pretty nice, but I'm still looking for the ultimate blue.

Would you have any formulas with a deeper color? I have access to most chemicals except paris green (and potassium chlorate, but I'm planning to make some in the coming month).

I'm also fine if it needs an exotic (or expensive) prime so the stars can be hard to light.

 

Thanks!

[Doloy]

I mean 18 copper benzoate in the first composition, not 12.

[NeighborJ]

Are you testing them at night and at distance? Those are some good blues, if they don't do the trick then there's not much that will beat them.

[Doloy]

Are you testing them at night and at distance? Those are some good blues, if they don't do the trick then there's not much that will beat them.

I tried at night from a distance and also while being close to it. But I didn't try them in a shell yet. They're quite good, but I'd like to see if it's possible to get even better.

[Doloy]

Could replacing the copper oxide by copper oxychloride help? I read that in general it gives a deeper color.than CuO or CuCO3. Is copper oxychloride even compatible with AP?

[NeighborJ]

Doloy the only reaction I'm aware of is a decomposition of chlorates. Cuoxy is only a slight improvement.

[Mumbles]

There's no such thing as "best" formula, only one you like the best. My favorite blue is Pyro Science blue. That's not to say it's the best, just that it's my favorite.

 

Potassium Perchlorate 66.1

Copper Oxide 13.4

Parlon 10.7

Red Gum 9.8

Dextrin 5

Total 105

You may also be interested in the following Skylighter articles called "The Blues". There are links to longer articles within them. Ostensibly, Wilbur Blue from the first article may be considered "the best" in some circles.

http://www.skylighter.com/skylighter_info_pages/article.asp?Item=10

http://www.skylighter.com/skylighter_info_pages/article.asp?Item=11

http://www.skylighter.com/skylighter_info_pages/article.asp?Item=12

[Carbon796]

Ned also did a wholoe series of blue tests on his site . . .

 

Have you gotten them in to the air at a distance, sitting on the ground at a distance isn't the same. Also complimentary color selection can " help improve " the color.

[Doloy]

Ned also did a wholoe series of blue tests on his site . . .

 

Have you gotten them in to the air at a distance, sitting on the ground at a distance isn't the same. Also complimentary color selection can " help improve " the color.

No, I haven't sent them in the air yet, It's on my to-do list. Complimentary color section... So if I understand, you would suggest trying them next an orange or yellow star?

[Mumbles]

I think he just means that a blue star in a shell or mine can be rather mediocre, but when combined say with a gold star or streamer the depth can appear to improve. The real moral of the story is not to test them on the ground if you actually are looking for an ideal star. Not only is the perception of the color not the same as in the sky, the conditions the star experiences on the ground are not the same as in the air. Moving through the air a star will have access to both more oxygen and a cooling effect of moving through the air.

[NeighborJ]

Yellow stars, gold glitters, charcoal stars all compliment blues the best. Also to test on the ground don't look at The Star directly, instead place a white panel nearby and view the color reflected on its surface. This will give you a better idea of what hue you'll see in the sky.

[Doloy]

Yellow stars, gold glitters, charcoal stars all compliment blues the best. Also to test on the ground don't look at The Star directly, instead place a white panel nearby and view the color reflected on its surface. This will give you a better idea of what hue you'll see in the sky.

Thanks, I'll try the trick with a white panel.

[MadMat]

The difference in color of a star in the sky at night is pretty significant. The first time I made blue stars I was very disappointed by the color, that is, until I actually put them in a shell and fired it off. My disappointment went away when I saw that shell!

[pyrokid]

Another comment regarding the perception of color in the sky: you don't necessarily need to pair a certain color with its compliment. The inclusion of any other color gives the eye a frame of reference with which to evaluate the main color. I would be concerned about mixing blue with many yellows because of the potential for the yellow to drown out the blue. I like green/blue or purple/blue or red/blue combinations.

[MolonLabe]

I'm new, but everything I've read indicates that blue is by far the most difficult color to achieve - the unicorn. Wish you luck

[Doloy]

Thanks, your advises are all very interesting. I'll definitely try those stars in a shell in the upcoming time (I'm not home right now, so it's a bit difficult.).

 

However, when I see videos of chlorate/paris green tested on the ground, they look way better than when I film mine.

 

Also, I've read about the subject and seen that some people were talking about AP blue stars that were really nice but extremely hard to light. What are those exactly? I still have never tried a star containing both AP and hexamine.

[braddsn]

Doloy, I have never heard of an AP star that was extremely hard to light. Blue stars, in my experience, are actually rather easy to light compared to some other colors. However, they will easily blow out if they are going too fast. I like blues that have at least a small amount of metal (MgAl), this seems to make it a little easier to keep them lit. My 2 favorite blues are Veline Blue, and Spanish blue. They are both great, and have small amounts of MgAl. I prime my blues with more prime than I prime any other color, so that there is more of a delay before the blue star actually ignites after the prime.

 

I also tend to try and break my blues softer than I break my other colors.. for example...

 

Here is the spanish blue:

 

https://youtu.be/PXlQeuLfLaw?t=12s

[rogeryermaw]

if it's not raining tonight, i'll post a blue test this evening...hoping my camera senses blue worth a damn! often they appear white. i made half a pound of pihko blue # 3 replacing the red gum with the phenolic resin from jim @ ctpyro. nod to brad here, hope they light well. i layered a hot prime with mgal n.c. bound under screen mix also n.c. bound fairly thick.

[rogeryermaw]

here is a link to that blue test as promised:

 

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/10192-rogers-pyrotechnic-offerings-and-experiments/?p=170608

 

this is pihko # 3 with phenolic resin in place of the red gum.

[braddsn]

That looks awesome Roger. Impressive man. I would stick with that blue. Didn't you try some AP blues in the past? How did they compare?

[Doloy]

here is a link to that blue test as promised:

 

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/10192-rogers-pyrotechnic-offerings-and-experiments/?p=170608

 

this is pihko # 3 with phenolic resin in place of the red gum.

Nice. Do they look as good in real? Does phenolic resin has an influence on the color or it's pretty much the same as phiko blue No.3?

[rogeryermaw]

ya they looked quite good in person. bright but not too washed and the phenolic resin seems to burn cleaner than red gum. the blue stars i have tried in the past with red gum have red tips in the flame envelope that can leave the overall star looking a bit purple.

[greenlight]

Does anybody have any information on the formulas for these blues using copper bromide as the oxidiser and colourant considering the page was published 2 years ago?

 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/phys.org/news/2015-09-benign-blue-pyrotechnics.amp

 

They look quite nice and dont require perchlorate or a chlorine donor.

Edited July 20, 2017 by greenlight

[dave321]

sounds like they are using copper bromate as the oxidiser and hexamine as fuel,

 

Lloyd, have you used copper bromate at all ?

 

dave

[rogeryermaw]

it's a little more exotic than anything we use normally. i haven't seen any pyro supplier carry it. i investigated that article a couple of years ago and mumbles said it would be among the more difficult items to access and iirc, he said the synthesis wasn't exactly trivial.