Spiking tar

[lloyd]

There's been a "sudden rush" on this. 'Don't know why --

 

A lot of folks like to use tar (rather than wax) to secure spiking twine knots. It's a traditional Italian and Maltese method.

I have available 2-lb blocks of cast tar ("high-pitch bituminous tar"), divided to break up into six 'hand-sized' cubes for rubbing on twine as it's used.

It takes only a tiny bit -- 2lb lasts a LONG time. You need only rub it on the twine until there's some evidence of tar all-round. It does NOT need to completely coat the twine. It acts as a very positive knot adhesive, and helps bind the twine to the outer paper wraps, as well.

Contact me at lloydsp@mindspring.com (PP address, also). I usually have it in stock, and can ship on the next mail day by 2-day priority.

$19.50 per block, including shipping (US). If you PP, please 'gift' it, or they take a good chunk of the shipping cost just for the transaction.

Otherwise, contact me by email, and I can give you other payment options.

Thanks,
Lloyd

Edited April 4, 2017 by lloyd

[OldMarine]

I love spiking with the tarred string. Unlike pasted twine you can actually take a break without losing your tension and there's no worry of string relaxation as it dries.

[pyroman2498]

What type of sting is ussaly tarred ? I have some tarred twine from Greg ( know as

Hobie on FW) when I was building my ring of reports shell he brought it to me so I could the the match onto all my inserts. I don't remember what type of sting he dated it was though but it's really nice stuff and I'm running Low on it.

[lloyd]

Pyroman,

Traditionally, Linen, Jute, and Hemp twines are the ones they tar. Ned Gorski has taken to tarring his cotton, also, and loves it.

 

Some folks think you must solidly coat the twine; some even go so far as to run the twine through a molten bath of it. That's dangerous, dirty work, and not necessary at all.

 

In fact, tarring holds knots better if it only very lightly shows up all-around the twine, so that it's PRESENT in tied knots, but occupies no volume. Then, when/if things get hot, the tar will lose some adhesive properties (while hot), but won't loosen the knot for having 'subsided'. When it cools again, the tar regains its adhesive qualities.

 

To that end, all one does is hold the twine taut, and gently rub a small block over the twine.

 

Mine is supplied in 2lb blocks, conveniently 'scored' into six hand-sized blocks, so it's easy to manage.

 

Lloyd

[OldMarine]

I use 1mm hemp twine from Paul Moulder and really like it but others recommend linen/flax as well. I used tarred jute on a maroon recently and really liked the way it grabbed and after burnishing, the loose threads all laid smoothly.

Edit: Of course Lloyd beat me to the punch!

Edited April 5, 2017 by OldMarine

[dagabu]

...Some folks think you must solidly coat the twine; some even go so far as to run the twine through a molten bath of it. That's dangerous, dirty work, and not necessary at all...

 

 

Your doing it wrong if that is your experience. I also find it to be balderdash that it slips or binds or what not if fully coated. Tarred twine in marine use has been around a millennia longer than pyro and there is no proof that it does either when fully coated. Yes, the extra tar has to be removed so to not form a thick layer but a pass through the proper wiping die takes care of that.

 

There is room for more than one opinion here, rubbing and coating achieve the same thing when both are done properly, this is certainly not one of the "Only one way works." issues.

[lloyd]

"Yes, the extra tar has to be removed so to not form a thick layer but a pass through the proper wiping die takes care of that."

----------------

Language is so important, Dag! I didn't say "fully-impregnated" twine would fail in those respects... I used the word "coated" very carefully and precisely.

 

I'm an ex-Navy sailor. (small boats, 'Nam) I'm quite familiar with 'tarred' lines. Those are seldom (I'd say 'never') just soaked in hot tar. Sisal and manila lines are soaked in a low-viscosity oily mix of tar, copper and zinc salts, and solvents, with the specific purpose of making the fluid penetrate to the core, in order to prevent rot and water-induced deterioration.

 

And, like you say, they're thoroughly 'wiped down' after the process, so that there is no significant thickness of coating on the outside of the line. For that matter, there's no 'significant' coating of the individual fibers INSIDE the line, either. The coating is microscopically thin.

 

What I was referring to is where a practitioner runs string through a bath of straight molten tar, coating the outside rather thickly with tar, then allowing it to cool before use. I know of several pyros who've done that, with poor results and with a tremendous waste of materials.

 

I'm selling the stuff! If I were serving some sort of personal interest, I'd be telling folks to use it heavily. THAT would be "Balderdash".

 

Your use of the word "Balderdash" is a clear indication of your disdain for others' opinions, even given that you don't actually read their opinions before expressing that disdain. I may spout drivel when talking politics, but I don't when trying to assist other pyros.

 

So, I'll repeat... knots tied with string so-treated WILL loosen when the assembly gets hot. I've watched it happen!

 

LLoyd

Edited April 17, 2017 by lloyd

[Ubehage]

..... knots tied with string so-treated WILL loosen when the assembly gets hot. I've watched it happen!

 

LLoyd

It still sounds better than the 7 rolls of Jute I bought. I can't tie a good knot, because the string keeps breaking.

On several occasions, I have violently cleared my entire workbench with a swing of the arm because the string suddenly snapped. Luckily, I didn't have any accidents, and I have adapted to this problem.

I'll try covering a roll in tar and see if it's better.

[lloyd]

Ube,

Use the term 'covered' with caution. Just rub on a little bit, so it's visible all-round, but not fully coating the twine. It's there as a lubricant for knot-tying, and a fixative for the knots... but not a 'full coating'. It serves less-well that way than if sparingly-applied.

 

Was that MY jute? It has a fairly-high breaking strength. It's Mil-Spec fuse yarn, specified for military spun fuse, and also the same stuff the Maltese use for their 'fully-wrapped' shells.

 

Lloyd

[Ubehage]

Was that MY jute? It has a fairly-high breaking strength. It's Mil-Spec fuse yarn, specified for military spun fuse, and also the same stuff the Maltese use for their 'fully-wrapped' shells.

 

No, it was jute bought from pyrogarage. I don't know much about string in general, but after having discovered that it keeps breaking, I have looked at the twine and it seems like it's poorly made; thick in some places and very thin in other places.

A rough estimate would be, that about half of each roll is usable. The rest I just cut off and throw out.

 

I'm not trying to speak bad of PyroGarage. I'm generally very satisfied with them and their products.

[lloyd]

Ube,

Even Mil-spec jute will have some 'soft' spots... not thin, but sort of loosely-spun (a bit 'fluffy') and thus a bit weaker than the main body. But those are few, and there are NO thinned-out regions.

 

I have several thousands of 1Kg rolls of it in stock, if you ever need more (I used to make Mil-spec fuses).

 

Lloyd

[dagabu]

Why does that why we run four of those at once just in case of the thinner or smaller spots? Considering that it's such a thing string to start with, that would make sense.

[lloyd]

May be. I don't know the Maltese's original reason for doing it that way, but it works. Paul Moulder, who builds a LOT of that style says that the twine I've sold him "is the tits" (my words). Everyone else seems to share that opinion. Ned even carries it in his on-line store.

 

 

Lloyd

[OldMarine]

I've thought of getting jute to spike maroons. I can't bring myself to use my hemp twine for those and cotton just doesn't "look" right for some reason.

[lloyd]

Whenever, Patrick. I've got (actually) tons of it! Last count was like 4900 1Kg rolls!

 

Lloyd

[OldMarine]

How much? You should know by now I'm a string junkie!

Figure how ever many rolls will fit in a priority mail carton.

Edited April 18, 2017 by OldMarine

[lloyd]

I'll PM you.

 

Lloyd

[lloyd]

PM sent... via two different mechanisms! <grin>

Lloyd

[dagabu]

OM,

 

DO IT!!

 

I have several rolls and its great to work with. If my wife and I can get to FFFF this year, I'm going to liberate a few more from Lloyd. Good stuff!

[Maserface]

Ube,

Even Mil-spec jute will have some 'soft' spots... not thin, but sort of loosely-spun (a bit 'fluffy') and thus a bit weaker than the main body. But those are few, and there are NO thinned-out regions.

 

I have several thousands of 1Kg rolls of it in stock, if you ever need more (I used to make Mil-spec fuses).

 

Lloyd

Do you have an active source for the jute, or did you buy a big 'closing lot'?

 

I read that the military uses something like 1.5 million feet of the m700 fuse, THAT is a lot of dang fuse.

[lloyd]

I bought out a US supplier of 7.5K rolls of it... I still have around 5K rolls, and it keeps selling.

 

I have info on the overseas vendor, but I have to buy a 20' container-load at a time. Ehhh... we'll see, when this lot is growing low.

 

I made tens of K-feet of the fuse during my contract. But that deal is over. If I ever did it again, it would be with a fuse spinner of my own design... not the machine I finally gave away, just to make space.

 

Lloyd

[Maserface]

Thanks-

 

It will certainly be a whole before you run low, but that's a good thing! It's primo string.

 

(and the tar ain't bad either!)

[Ubehage]

Do you have an active source for the jute, or did you buy a big 'closing lot'?

 

I read that the military uses something like 1.5 million feet of the m700 fuse, THAT is a lot of dang fuse.

I don't know where the jute came from, other than I ordered it from pyrogarage.pl

I just checked their site to see if I could find any other info, and it seems like they have stopped selling the type that I bought.

Maybe it really was a bad batch.

[irkacek]

Dear Ube,

I'm very sorry to hear that you were disappointed about quality of our jute twine. But to be honest, I share your feeling. We also noticed that the quality of jute twine were worse from batch to batch. So we decided to change our supplier. Now we offer much better (in our opinion) jute twine. It's much more stronger and quality is equal on all the length of string and between batches.

http://www.pyrogarage.pl/img/up/jute.jpg

Could you please to contact us by email. I would like to ask you to run some tests on it if you don't mind.

Best regards,

Ireneusz