Driven in

[Merlin]

In retesting my stars made earlier I discovered a batch of 3/8" winokur 37 that I attempted to roll has driven in moisture. Can they be saved or should I toss them? Next time I will press them.

Thanks

[lloyd]

Glitters can be problematic in this respect, because they can undergo decomposition of the aluminum if they remain wet too long.

 

But that said, it's worth a try to salvage them. Other 'driven in' comps CAN be saved by this method.

 

The method is simple. Spritz them VERY lightly with a tiny (TINY!) bit of water in a fine mist, making sure they've all received a treatment, pretty-much over all their surfaces. Then seal them up in a tightly-closed plastic bag in a cool environment for about 24-hours. During that time, the outer hard layers will soften enough to permit moisture to migrate through again.

 

Finally, put them out in trays (yeah... out of their bags, but I just HAD to say that!) in a temperate drying area, where they don't dry too fast. They'll dry the same as if they'd been 'just made'.

 

I cannot guarantee that a glitter won't suffer from that treatment, but I have saved some glitters that way, and lots of other star types.

 

Lloyd

Edited April 3, 2017 by lloyd

[Sparx88]

I second that.

 

Glitters are the most difficult to fix from excess water, though you can get them dry the glitter effect usually takes a hit. They end up as a sort of medium tailed c8 with very sparse flashing.

[Merlin]

Thanks for your help. I just got home from getting gassed at the dentist. High quality N2O! Remember nothing.

I will follow your instructions on re -wetting and drying. It makes sense. I suspect these may serve as white stars but the glitter effect may not work. I remember rolling them and using more water than I should have even though these do not contain aluminum. I'm gonna press some tomorrow and hold the water to 6%.

Thanks

[Arthur]

It's useful to actually practise spraying with your spray can, you really need to only just damp them.

[lloyd]

"...you really need to only just damp them."

--------

Yeah... what he said. (Mmmm...??? Didn't I read that somewhere, already?) <grin>

 

Lloyd

[dynomike1]

When i finish stars, i just leave them in my shop (time varies) before i put any air on them. I have noticed the a lot of people think they can just put them in a drying box,right off the bat. I am not sure about doing that with charcoal streamers and glitter.

Edited April 4, 2017 by dynomike1

[lloyd]

Mike,

With the right amounts of dehumdification and heating, you can do that with just about anything, including glitters. It takes a careful balance, though.

 

We were stuck with having to turn-around any given batch of stars in about three days from the time they hit the drying room until they went onto the line for installation in products. So we were compelled to 'force dry' them.

 

We always tried to 'cheat' on glitters -- make them early in the morning, put them out in trays for ambient-air drying, outdoors and in the shade, then only put them in the drying facility at closing time. We were able to properly dry just about anything you can name 5/8" diameter or smaller. Larger effects could take two to four days longer. For those, we tried to get them in the facility by closing on Tuesdays, so that they would always be available to production by the following Monday a.m..

 

Very large comets (2.5" up) took considerably longer, and we intentionally pressed those quite-dry, and at extreme pressures, in order to obviate the chances of their becoming driven-in.

 

For anyone who has the time, temperate drying is the better choice.

 

Lloyd

Edited April 4, 2017 by lloyd

[Merlin]

When i finish stars, i just leave them in my shop (time varies) before i put any air on them. I have noticed the a lot of people think they can just put them in a drying box,right off the bat. I am not sure about doing that with charcoal streamers and glitter.

I can add that I was worried about the aluminum reacting so I used boric acid and threw them in the box at 130F - the result was driven in stars. I am going to press and dry at ambient before placing in box this time.

[Arthur]

There was a UK liking for a two part resorcinol binder. Best done in winter! Mix 2 part resin add an equal volume of water Add about 5% to dry mix and press til there is liquid extruded round the tool. Remove from press and warm to room temp. Can be ready in 2 hours. anything unmixed or un pressed needs to be refrigerated. a comet left on a radiator is ready to fire in minutes. Anything at room temp sets, stuck to the bowl etc in less than half an hour.

 

In cool climes this really is a make, test, repeat process.

[Merlin]

Should this work for glitter comps.

Mill nitrate

Add other components and integrate

Add 6 percent water/boric solution to damp

Press to high pressure

Allow finished stars to dry ambient temp at < 50% humidity for one week

Lightly spray with water add BP prime

Place in dry box at 130F overnight

 

Same procedure for other charcoal comps.

This is what I am doing for winokur 37

Sans any correction I will proceed to Winokur 20

Thanks for your help 🤔

[OldMarine]

That is exactly how I do all of my charcoal based comps. Make sure you weigh them directly after pressing. For smaller stars I weigh a few groups of five so I can get a better idea of water loss later.

[Mumbles]

There was a UK liking for a two part resorcinol binder. Best done in winter! Mix 2 part resin add an equal volume of water Add about 5% to dry mix and press til there is liquid extruded round the tool. Remove from press and warm to room temp. Can be ready in 2 hours. anything unmixed or un pressed needs to be refrigerated. a comet left on a radiator is ready to fire in minutes. Anything at room temp sets, stuck to the bowl etc in less than half an hour.

 

In cool climes this really is a make, test, repeat process.

 

Does this work for glitters as well? Non-aqueous binders have a tendency to affect glitters more than say colored stars.

 

Merlin, that method sounds great. I would ensure they are dry or almost dry if you must use a heated drying box. Heat can be the enemy of glitters and their unwanted reactions.

[Wiley]

I've cut Win 20 and N1 quite a bit. I use enough water for them to cut smoothly, and no more. I dust them with prime while cutting, solely to keep them from sticking to the knife and to each other. I leave them on screens for as long as I can at ambient temp, in the shade. Sometimes that's as little as about 6 hours. If it's going to freeze at night, I put the screens in my drying box, but leave the lid off. That way they get air flow and are kept from freezing. If the day is warm, I put them back in the shade. If cold at night, back into the lidless drying box. After about 3 days, they should be hard clear through. Once they reach that stage, I put them in the drying box with the lid on overnight. I've dried up to 3/4" cut Winokur 20 and N1 this way, in under 5 days.

[dynomike1]

When i press stars-comets i put just enough water/alcohol to make the comp stick together when squeezed in my hand.

[Merlin]

I have finished W37 and W 20. I used 6 percent water for the 37 but the 20 required 8 percent for some reason. I used a 1/2" Wolters plate in. Hydraulic press. The comps were on the dry side but pressed up well. I will dry at ambient temp. Wish I had a 3/8" plate but they are rather expensive.

Now on to crossettes. N1, D1, or maybe gold twinkler.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Merlin

[dynomike1]

N1 with Alcoa120 looks really good.