Torpedo's

[Mumbles]

I really doubt that. I don't think they'd ever be able to support the weight of the pebbles inside the torpedo after it dried. Wet it's fairly insensitive.

[bum]

What of using Perchlorate instead of Chlorate to make the initial mix safer to handle, and then adding more gravel to get the same impact threshold?

[Mumbles]

Perchlorate with sulfur/Sb2S3 isn't that much less sensitive than the chlorate counterpart. Perhaps adding some sand to the mixture would work. Just alone is would probably be fine, maybe having to throw them against the ground a bit harder. I'd prefer to go to a point where they're not sensitive enough, than the other way around.

[ns4life]

I finally had some down time where I was able to play around with a few different compositions. I tried the following compositions in my torpedoes:

 

 

Comp 1)

Oxidizer

Kclo3 59%

MnO2 1%

 

Fuel

Sb2S3 30%

AL (German Black) 10%

 

Both the oxidizer and fuel mixture were mixed separately via the diaper method. Total test amounts ranged from 50 mg – 150mg. This composition was extremely shock sensitive

 

Comp 2)

 

Kclo3 50%

Sb2S3 50%

 

Both components were dampened separately and mixed into slurry that had the consistency of thick paste. Small eye dropper sizes of the composition were left to dry on waxed paper. Upon drying the composition was not as shock sensitive as the first composition but would easily detonate upon a drop of 8ft or more.

 

Comp 3)

 

This is my personal favorite and worked quite well. It wasn’t as shock sensitive as the first 2 compositions.

 

AgNo3

 

 

The liquid solution is percolated with acetylene gas. As the gas percolates a crystalline white precipitation forms. (silver carbide I believe). I washed this precipitation in distilled water and while wet carefully broke it into small grains. These grains only detonated upon hard impact.

 

 

With all compositions I used small pea gravel for friction

[hst45]

AgNo3

 

 

The liquid solution is percolated with acetylene gas. As the gas percolates a crystalline white precipitation forms. (silver carbide I believe).

That would be silver acetylide, I believe.

[ns4life]

That would be silver acetylide, I believe.

 

I beleive your right, I think silver carbide requires the addition of calcium carbide.

[shagaKahn]

OK after gleaning every bit of literature at my disposal I decided to try making a batch of these.

 

(Simple 50/50 formula as I was fresh out of manganese dioxide for the buffer).

 

3/4" cupsets; ten-gram batches; chlorate mortar'n pestled and antimony trioxide as it came from the reagent jar (already pretty fine); 1/8" aquarium gravel.

 

First two batches about a gram of this comp per cup; third batch about 700 milligrams per cup.

 

Neither would go off with a soft (underhand) toss 20 into the air onto concrete; ended up putting on a safety shield and leather gauntlets and throwing them as hard as I could against the pavement. That did it. 1-gram cups were noticeably louder than the 700-milligram ones.

 

Friend took one of the 700-milligram ones and threw it as hard and as high into the air as he could and falling from forty or fifty feet onto concrete that one went off.

 

Must say I'm a bit relieved that they're not quite as sensitive as I was led to expect. Not that I'm about to be casual with these but they really didn't go off as easily as I've read they would.

 

Particle size of comps not fine enough? More mixing?

[Ralph]

OK after gleaning every bit of literature at my disposal I decided to try making a batch of these.

 

(Simple 50/50 formula as I was fresh out of manganese dioxide for the buffer).

 

3/4" cupsets; ten-gram batches; chlorate mortar'n pestled and antimony trioxide as it came from the reagent jar (already pretty fine); 1/8" aquarium gravel.

 

First two batches about a gram of this comp per cup; third batch about 700 milligrams per cup.

 

Neither would go off with a soft (underhand) toss 20 into the air onto concrete; ended up putting on a safety shield and leather gauntlets and throwing them as hard as I could against the pavement. That did it. 1-gram cups were noticeably louder than the 700-milligram ones.

 

Friend took one of the 700-milligram ones and threw it as hard and as high into the air as he could and falling from forty or fifty feet onto concrete that one went off.

 

Must say I'm a bit relieved that they're not quite as sensitive as I was led to expect. Not that I'm about to be casual with these but they really didn't go off as easily as I've read they would.

 

Particle size of comps not fine enough? More mixing?

 

manganese dioxide is anything but a buffer its a catalyst

 

1g of explosive comp with handy dandy shrapnel included going off anywhere near me is not something Im keen on. I like my ass the way it is with out aquarium gravel embedded in it

[shagaKahn]

Sounds like ralph missed out on Cracker Balls--one of the highlights of the late 50's. We got up to no end of mischief with them--and though I do recall being stung a few times with gravel I know no one of all my scores of mates who was ever hurt by one of these.

 

Sounds like the comp with manganese dioxide takes less impact to detonate (which means we wouldn't have to throw it down so hard nor so close to us).

 

Still prob'ly the most nerve-wracking pyro I've ever worked on . . .

[NightHawkInLight]

Here are some snaps I made many years ago:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJX0DsD4MeQ

 

I have video buried in my computer of snaps above .5g, but they exploded with such violence that I wasn't comfortable posting online. Here is a post I made on another forum regarding torpedoes, in response to a question about the use of realgar in making them:

 

There are many compositions that could be used in a torpedo, including those with realgar. The requirements of a torpedo composition are to:

1-Be energetic enough to cause a bang in small amounts

2-Have the sensitivity to be initiated upon impact

3-Remain 'stable' in storage

 

1 & 2 are characteristics that would prevent just about any builder from using such a composition even in a firework that was to be ignited from a safe distance, yet the purpose of a torpedo is to be thrown from the hand. A lot of faith goes into imparting momentum from your hand into an object that is meant to explode upon impact.

 

The manufacture of such devices is even more dangerous than the use. All compositions for torpedoes use potassium chlorate in combination with other chemicals to form what are lovingly named by the pyro community as 'death mixes'. By making them you risk life, limb, property, and a very possible run in with the law. There is no way to handle such compositions that could ever be called safe. I cannot overemphasize the danger involved. You may be lucky enough to experiment with death mixes for years, but they are unpredictable, and will most certainly cause an accident in due time even with stringent safety measures.

 

Now having given fair warning I will list some compositions. Every one has incompatibilities between two or more chemicals that makes them dangerously sensitive. Here are several that have been used:

 

Potassium Chlorate - 12

Sulfur - 7

Antimony Trisulfide - 9

 

Potassium Chlorate - 4

Sulfur - 3

Antimony Trisulfide - 1

 

Potassium Chlorate - 16

Sulfur - 12

Antimony Trisulfide - 3

 

Railroad Torpedoes:

 

Potassium Chlorate - 16

Antimony Trisulfide - 12

Aluminum Dust - 1

 

Potassium Chlorate - 40%

Sulfur - 16

Sand (-60mesh) - 5

Binder - 5

Neutralizer - 2

 

The composition of the realgar torpedoes was likely something like this:

 

Potassium Chlorate - 63

Realgar - 37

 

I post this information to educate your curiosities, and hopefully scare you into pursuing real pyrotechnics rather than these obscenely dangerous and crude devices.

Edited May 25, 2011 by NightHawkInLight

[shagaKahn]

NHIL said with cogency:

 

"You may be lucky enough to experiment with death mixes for years, but they are unpredictable, and will most certainly cause an accident in due time even with stringent safety measures."

 

You just spoke to the heart of my predicament: having produced a batch of these which don't seem that dangerous has made me think they're not that dangerous. Yeah, right. Don't put away the gauntlets; don't put away the face shield. Don't keep playing with these. Just don't.

 

That being said, the "snaps" in your vid look like there's just the requisite weight of comp wrapped up in a wad of tissue paper? No gravel?

[shagaKahn]

Looks like Ralph was nice enough not to point to the other glaring flaw in my post: not an -oxide- but a -sulfide- of Sb. Think I may be getting too much sleep . . .

 

'Nother factor in my favor currently is that it's still fairly humid. But as the air starts to dry out . . .

[NightHawkInLight]

There was gravel in the snaps, but just a few grains. It did take hitting a hard surface to touch them off, but a little friction between the fingers could have certainly done it. After .5g I no longer felt that the gravel could be trusted to not travel at harmful speeds.

[shagaKahn]

Can't really tell from your video; were you gently lofting them up (underhanded) into the air and letting them fall to the pavement or accelerating them (overhanded) onto the pavement?

[NightHawkInLight]

Can't really tell from your video; were you gently lofting them up (underhanded) into the air and letting them fall to the pavement or accelerating them (overhanded) onto the pavement?

 

I believe I was overhanding them, but it was a long time ago.

[Blackthumb]

I have a booklet on torpedos....when I find it, I will post formulas.....I've made them before and still have all my fingers. Just have to follow instructions and be gentle. Don't think the risk is worth it...

[Ralph]

Sounds like ralph missed out on Cracker Balls--one of the highlights of the late 50's. We got up to no end of mischief with them--and though I do recall being stung a few times with gravel I know no one of all my scores of mates who was ever hurt by one of these.

 

Sounds like the comp with manganese dioxide takes less impact to detonate (which means we wouldn't have to throw it down so hard nor so close to us).

 

Still prob'ly the most nerve-wracking pyro I've ever worked on . . .

 

I doubt the cracker balls had quite 1g of comp in them though you can see in NHL's video that the smaller ones don't have a whole lot of throwing potenticial but the 0.5g one is starting to get close

 

 

no point pointing out things that everyone knows the meanig of in context thats a job for the grammar natzis

[shagaKahn]

Though I'd always assumed those cracker balls from my youth were a fulminate comp John Donner says they were chlorate/realgar. (Prob'ly accounts for why they've been banned these 50 years since it only took one retard eating one to spoil it for posterity).

 

But you're right Ralph: the entire cracker ball weighed barely a gram and even blown up really close they never made my ears ring like the recent globe torpedoes I made.

 

Guess what I'm hoping for is a formula that's a smidge more sensitive than my last batch but not so sensitive they terrify me.

 

Manganese dioxide ain't that expensive and a pound of it would prob'ly catalyze more torpedoes than I could ever use.

 

Found an old torpedo from my secret stash; actual cracker balls were closer to the size of the dime:

[BJV]

Here are a few boxes of cracker balls from my collection.

BJV

 

[shagaKahn]

That's pretty hot BJV; you actually saved some of these beauties.

 

Had no idea they'd ever go away or I'd have stashed a few. Used to get them at the corner store; then from one day to the next they were just gone. (Like my beloved DIXIE BOYS).

 

Pardon my going OT, but what constitutes a "DONOR" on this list? Do you have to give blood?

[BJV]

That's pretty hot BJV; you actually saved some of these beauties.

 

Had no idea they'd ever go away or I'd have stashed a few. Used to get them at the corner store; then from one day to the next they were just gone. (Like my beloved DIXIE BOYS).

 

Pardon my going OT, but what constitutes a "DONOR" on this list? Do you have to give blood?

Money!!

BJV

[Blackthumb]

Have info from the 60's and 90's on "Friction Pearls", Globe Torpedos, Cap Torpedos, Cracker Balls, Cane Torpedos, Nelson's Clay Torpedos.

Also found a catalog from the 60's....listing 3/32" red waterproof fuse....$25.00 per 1000'

PM for more info....

 

New shirt logo...

[shagaKahn]

Is that the "booklet" you were referring to with torpedo formulae?

[Algenco]

Blackthumb, that wouldn't be one of the "Zeller" pamphlets would it?

They use to run ads in Hunting Mags selling cannon fuse, the fuse order would arrive with a couple of Pyro formulas and a catalog of chems/components