passgas Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 I made 2 small batches of charcoal using white wood as a way to learn. I made about 10 oz by weight. The can I had was made of steel and I can see it won't hold up much longer.I was at walmart and saw an 8qt stainless steel stock pot with lid for less than $7. One problem I see is getting the lid to seal on the pot. I can use paper spring clips on the lid to pot. I guess I should find some gasket material for auto exhaust. I thought about teflon tape(I did the same thing using teflon tape on edge of a pot and spring clips for a water still which did work) but the teflon melts at 620 f. Okay to use a thin ss stock pot and am I over thinking about sealing the lid to pot? Thanks for any answers.
lloyd Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 You're over-thinking it. All the gasses go OUT during cooking, and regardless of how well you 'seal' the lid, atmosphere will enter again once you turn off the fire. The goal is simply to slow the intrusion of the atmospheric oxygen to the point where it won't destroy the load. SLOW COOLING is the solution to that. I've done a lot of 'pot cooking' of charcoal. I now prefer the TLUD method. (and yes, I still close the 'stack' [and the bottom vent] once it's done). Lloyd
Boophoenix Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 Pass, it'll hold up better, but may still have issues long term. At that price not to worry to much though. Just Incase you were not aware many stock pots have a layer of Al ( I think it is ) in the bottom to help evenly distribute the heat. At the price you're talking about yours may not. Also the grade of stainless may also have some bearing on it longevity.
Richtee Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Christ. What’s wrong with gallon paint cans.. poke a hole in the lid and pour sand on it when done cooking. I did 5-6 at a time in a fire pit. it’s not rocket science. Yet Oh on edit when smoke stops coming out the hole...lift out with the wire bale and sand it. Edited February 21, 2017 by Richtee
passgas Posted February 21, 2017 Author Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Christ. What’s wrong with gallon paint cans.. poke a hole in the lid and pour sand on it when done cooking. I did 5-6 at a time in a fire pit. it’s not rocket science. Yet Oh on edit when smoke stops coming out the hole...lift out with the wire bale and sand it.I was shell shocked when I saw the price for a 1 gallon paint can in my area. $5. I will try the SS stock potand take one for the team. It will be a while. I need to go cut some willow trees today and let them dry. I will report back how the pot works. Guess I should do a test batch of white wood 2x4. The batch I did above I waited till the fire died down coming out the hole before pulling it off and I put a wet rag on top. Is this okay? The charcoal came out black thru out and it snapped with one hand, No ash. Is this considered cooking too long? Edited February 21, 2017 by passgas
Mumbles Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 It sounds about perfect to me. The wood should be black all the way through, have minimal ash, and have a crisp clean snap when broken just like you describe. In my opinion people worry way too much about overcooking in retorts and it's sort of an old wives tale. I really don't know of any instances where it's actually been achieved without deliberate intent or something bordering on negligence in a retort. With a TLUD it's probably a bit easier, but only since there is oxygen being admitted and it might take a few runs to dial in holes and when to shut it down.
lloyd Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 I don't know, Mumb. I've done a lot of it both ways. There's a very delicate line between "enough volatiles", and "over-cooked". When I see what usually works-out as 'good' charcoal for BP, I see not only black, but multi-colored "pearlescence" on the surfaces. That goes away, the longer it's cooked. When they're 'just black', it doesn't seem to be as fast in BP as the rainbow-hued stuff, although it's usually fine in color comps or willows. It's a fine line, yes. But I think it's an important one. Lloyd 1
OldMarine Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 I've noticed that when my charcoal splints get that oil-sheen type look to them they also clink when tapped together. They also make a fingernails on chalkboard sound while crushing so I try to just use shavings to avoid the heebie-jeebies.
Arthur Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 There is/was an old youtube vid of someone with a wood burning stove putting trimmed wood in an empty bean tin, covering it with a slightly larger food can and putting them into the stove as it was burning. By the time you have burned through the can there is another can ready in the kitchen recycle pack. Look in the shops for a useful product with a useful can eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_syrup
DavidF Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) I use a good quality stainless steel stockpot that is 14" wide and 15" tall. I use small C-clamps to hold the lid on. I can make about 5 pounds of charcoal at once. With all the talk about volatiles over the years, I have been removing it from the heat sooner and sooner. I don't wait for the flame/smoke to die off now. When it gets weak, it's done. I use dry wood and fine splits to avoid long cook times or unconverted wood. I've never had undercooked stuff yet. My guess is that the 'stainless steel' available now is nothing like the good steel of my Volrath pot. I find that the iridescent look comes and goes, regardless of the care I take in cooking. I personally know of 2 pyros that have over-cooked charcoal to the point of wrecking it for good BP. One was with balsa, the other with buckthorn alder. The one pyro's experience with his grossly over-cooked balsa led to the persistent false statement that balsa charcoal does not produce much gas. It took years of testing, reporting, and challenges to crush the absolutely unproven balsa myth. I now know that charcoal for BP can be over-cooked, but not easily. A guy has to really try to wreck it EDIT: It's Vollrath, not Volrath. Edited February 21, 2017 by DavidF
Richtee Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 I was shell shocked when I saw the price for a 1 gallon paint can in my area. $5. I will try the SS stock potand take one for the team. It will be a while. I need to go cut some willow trees today and let them dry. I will report back how the pot works. Guess I should do a test batch of white wood 2x4. The batch I did above I waited till the fire died down coming out the hole before pulling it off and I put a wet rag on top. Is this okay? The charcoal came out black thru out and it snapped with one hand, No ash. Is this considered cooking too long? Wow... jeez! Start haunting construction sites Burn ‘em out and go. No..sounds like you had just the right cook on that charcoal to me...
MadMat Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 (edited) I started out cooking my charcoal in a one gallon paint can with a 3/16" hole in the top. I always cooked the charcoal until the gasses coming out of the hole had just about stopped. At this time, I would pull the can from the heat, put a coin over the hole and let it sit and cool. This charcoal always had the exact look that Lloyd described (the pearlescence). I've made some lightning fast BP with that charcoal. As far as the longevity of the paint can; the wire handle was the first casualty of the heat (about 4 batches). Fortunately, this was easily fixed with some heavier gage wire. The next was the fit of the lid; after aprox. 8 batches it started getting loose and would have to be tamped into place a number of times during the cooking. that was when I stopped using it. Edited February 23, 2017 by MadMat
Richtee Posted February 23, 2017 Posted February 23, 2017 Again..I find it worth a mention.. “packing paper” essentially unprinted newsprint... packed into a can tight and cooked made this:
passgas Posted March 13, 2017 Author Posted March 13, 2017 Okay I got to break in my ss pot today. The good- I made by finish weight 15.7 ounces of crushed charcoal. Almost filled a plastic shoe box. I feel good on this batch of red cedar fencing. It looked like black pearl charcoal. This batch used 8 feet of I guess what is considered 6" wide and 5/8" thick but looked to me more like 1/2" thick. The bad- They used aluimin pop rivets for the handle. One side came off. No biggie because I drilled them out and bolted the handles on. Another thing I am doing is using some tie wire across the lid to make sure it does not come off. I keep 2 halves of fire brick on top of the lid too. Man gas was a venting off between the pot and cover. I did have (2) 3/16 holes in the cover. I am happy with the ss pop . I have enough fencing for one more batch, Got to wait 6 months before I can do willow.
Boophoenix Posted March 13, 2017 Posted March 13, 2017 Cool pass, glad you're getting a good cook. In case you hadn't considered it be careful with fencing posts for foreign metal matter like nails, staples and such. They could potentially upset a day of making BP in a mill.
lloyd Posted March 13, 2017 Posted March 13, 2017 Charcoal cooking doesn't get hot enough to melt steel. Screen the resultant stuff carefully, and any detritus like that will be revealed and removed. Lloyd
passgas Posted March 14, 2017 Author Posted March 14, 2017 Sorry about about that I miss spelled aluminum. One side of the pot did get hot and what ever the rivets are made of one handle did pop off. I will screen the charcoal before milling it to be sure it is not in the mix.It was very soft to drill out. I should batch anothercedar board of charcoal Friday. Need to clean up all my scrap wood for fuel. Should have enough charcoal for a while.
MadMat Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 I still cook my charcoal by the retort method, but was done with paint cans after my first one went bad after 8 batches. What I am using now was a lucky find at a thrift shop. It is what my mother used to call (back in the dark ages) a dutch oven. It's made of heavy cast iron (including cover), has a heavy gage wire handle and holds a little over 2 gallons. I bought this beauty for $8. My next cook will make around 18 batches with no noticeable heat induced wear.
jordanm Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Heres my easy TLUD made out of a 5 gallon metal pail. Cooks through a bad of ERC chips in no time, then i dump the contents into a large stainless pot and seal immediately. FYI make sure to make a hole in the dump container or it will create a vacuum which then you will need to make a hole to relieve the pressure. However sometimes i do not leave my wood chips cook long enough and i have a small amount of wood chips that are not black. My question is, is it better to error on the side of undercooking and get some uncooked chips or overcook and get ash?
Boophoenix Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Jord, I always lean towards u dercooked if I'm in doubt. Any uncooked material can go back into the next batch. I've found screaming to find uncooked material in chips. Gently working ,aterials threw a 10 mesh takes no time at all. I did get some trace amount of uncooked material threw a 10 mesh, but I'd bet at 20 that number would go down way further. I've read a lot of historical research about making charcoal. I often came across the reference of fresh cooked charcoal being pyrophobic. It may not be much concern in smaller batches, but I'd keep that in mind as my batches got larger. We debated this a little and some people brough up uncooked material and still having heat within it. I've found the same warning in some Commercial BP literature. If memory serves me correctly the one discussing it left there fresh materials for three days to cool and stabilize to over come the concern. Be careful of moving hot charcoal from one container to the next too. It may have potential to flare up occasionally.
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