Rolled stars vs pressed

[Fotia]

This is a multi query, so please be patient.

What is the performance difference in rolled stars vs pressed. I know some people prefer rolled stars for ball shell stacking but I've seen pressed stars stacked in a round shells as well.

And if I'm not mistaken, people roll stars formulas with metals so they don't damage the plates. Or is it really faster to roll stars?

If the only reason for rolling stars with metal instead of pressing is not to damage your plate, why not just make the lower plate holes larger & have replaceable bronze spacers and change them when they get chewed up bad enough?

Is there a difference when making them for mines?

I ask this before I start machining any plates.

[OldMarine]

With rolled stars you can make changing stars ie: color changes and even changes from glitter to color. Rolling stars is faster than pressing because you can do so many at once and can start another batch while those dry between layers and you can use sizing screens to get multiple star sizes from one batch with little extra labor. I'm getting me a roller!

[Fotia]

Forgot about color changing stars, but if your using a plate, the stars ARE to the size you want & you don't have to wait between layers, unless of course you want color changing. Guess everyone has a preference.

I've made a star roller that's pneumatically operated but after testing it with my lead media, it slows down after a few balls. I'm thinking I need to under-drive the bowl instead of direct drive or change the impeller to a 6 fin instead of 4 or both. I wanted to go pneumatic as using a motor when sprinkling a flammable powder doesn't set well with me.

I also thought about making a multi-sized star plate that would have interchangeable sleeves & pins for different sized stars so I only have 1 plate. This is why I can't get any Pyro made as I'm too busy making tooling.

[calebkessinger]

Your plate will just lock up if you get the "wrong" metal in it. aka anything that is small enough to roll up in between the pins and wall and big enough to get stuck there. bam.. beat em apart and then they look like an alligator ate em. You can increase the clearance to .040 thou on the pins put guild pins on the plate so the pressing pins stay centered and pretty much press any metal .0015 thou and under or .030 thou and larger. It's all about what can get wedged in the plate.

 

Some people use single pumps with minimal clearance and just make sure their metals are screened to the proper size and they work fine. I have been abusing my Delrin pin plates pretty harshly ( on purpose ) and am having good luck. The delrin gets a little chewed on but the alum plate looks brand new. a lot of commercial plates have delrin tips or complete delrin pins. It keeps the metal on metal from rubbing which in a commercial setting is just an extra safety net.

 

and.. you can just cut stars also. Lots of folks use the baggie method. Wet the comp, put it in a baggie and then get it the thickness you want, cut the baggie away, prime, flip, cut and prime more. easy stuff.

[Fotia]

The only problem with cut stars, is that they don't burn as long as a pressed or rolled one.

I thought I read somewhere that some people put an O ring at the tip of the pins so the metal can't get waged in between. I'm thinking something like a thin flat delrin O ring that will slide.

[braddsn]

Fotia, I will agree that cut stars don't burn as long as pressed ones. I recently did some testing on burn times, and found this to be true. For me, I build over 400 shells per year, and rolling is the most efficient way to make large amounts of stars. Also, the ability to make color changing stars is nice. Furthermore, for me it is easier to prime stars in the star roller, as opposed to priming pressed stars. And lastly, for ball shells, they stack better. Those are my reasons for rolling. I do press some stars, and I cut some too.. but 90% of my stars are rolled.

[Carbon796]

The preference will also depend on what your building. It's not really about the performance of round vs pumped vs cut. It is more about what is best suited to the application.

[Fotia]

Well right now I'm not too hip on building cylinder shells (what pressed stars usually are for) as I'm not sure about my spiking proficiency & I really don't want to make anymore tooling right now, but I've read where it takes a cetain knack & know-how to roll stars. At the moment I have my 1# rocket sleeve still in the lathe that has been sitting there since Tuesday & I started on it the middle of last week. Had a car wreck couple of weeks back (she hit me) & they are just now saying they are totaling it out.

I also have 3 comet/crossette pumps that I need to finish the tips for. A 3/4", 1", & a 2 3/4"(3").

Edited January 6, 2017 by Fotia

[braddsn]

Fotia, rolling stars is not hard at all. I suggest buying lead shot for cores, #8 size. I use the spritz and sprinkle method, and I made my own star roller with a 5 gal bucket and a drill. Once you do it a few times you will know the tricks and it's simple. I can roll a 2kg batch of stars in 2 hours.

[Nessalco]

I prefer rolled stars generally for reasons already mentioned, but pump charcoal and glitter stars, and cut zinc stars. I made up a series of those spring loaded ejector pumps, and can produce a pretty good product with them, pretty quickly

[Fotia]

Do you have a pic of the spring loaded ejector pump?

[Boophoenix]

I hand roll my rolled stars still and have for a couplemof years or so. While I don't do many it's quite relaxing for me. I don't build any shells to amount to anything yet either. They are mostly just for testing formulas for me.

 

I just cut my first batch and pumped my first couple of batches over Christmas for some tests.

 

Brad, I don't wanna come off like a safety Nazi, but there are some exposure risks with most drills. I'm guilty of trying it once though myself. I figured it's only appropriate to mention that so someone new might not think it's perfectly safe. Turn the lights out in a dark room and pull the trigger on a drill and you should a fair amount of sparks from the brushes inside most of them. Pyrotechnic dusts and sparks can make for a bad day very quickly.

[Fotia]

I was given 3 e100 razor scooters with good motors & batteries. My initial plan was to make a trike using at least 2 of the motors. I had thought about using 1 to run a star roller as they are sealed, but it still concerns me because there is always that potential for something to go wrong. Hence the reason for building a pneumatic operated (although not fully functional) roller. If you ever need an incentive to do everything you can to be as safe as possible, just look at dagabu's post about his accident.

[Boophoenix]

Even with safe motors since many are belt driven between the drum and motor I'd think with certain formulas you might raise the friction risk. We all assume a certain amount of risk by even mixing the formulas in the first place. I think a lot of it comes to what you're willing to accept so long as it isn't just out right dangerous.

[Fotia]

That's why my pneumatic is direct driven. It just lacks the torque for significant weight. That's why I wanted to remake the impeller to a 6 fin vs 4. BTW, if any of you are curious, I used an old dishwasher pump & remade the impeller as it seemed too narrow allowing too much air to bypass, made a new shaft; then made a bearing housing for the shaft which is attached to the base mounting plate. I would show you a pic but all I have for Internet usage is my phone & I don't have an imaging account online.

[Boophoenix]

It sounds quite interesting. It's always interesting the variety of ideas a group can come up with

[dynomike1]

I pump small batches to test. I roll when i do big batches.

[Boophoenix]

5 years in Mike and I just moved to other options from rolling. I had pumped s few crosettes before and just a few single comets. I figured it was about time to look into the other options since I have had plates for a few years and picked up my first slicing blade prior to MFF this year.

[Fotia]

So can it be said that not only does it depend on the application, it also depends on one's proficiency as well as thier comfort zone? And funding, as not all can make and/or buy tooling or machines.

[OldMarine]

I haven't built any round shells, only cylinders so cut and pumped stars have served me well but as I evolve to ball headers and color changers I'll have to build a roller.

The pyro monster always needs some money thrown down it's gullet!

[chuckufarley]

The pyro monster always needs some money thrown down it's gullet!

That monster has one hell of a big gullet too!!

[Fotia]

That's because it's a pregnant monster giving birth to more pyro monsters.

[OldMarine]

In the past 7 days I've ordered; 10 lbs of Indian Black aluminum, the Best of AFN, The Westech Manual,6 lbs of milled phenolic resin, 10 lbs of saran and some tubes.

The pyro Dragon should belch some pretty fire after digesting all that green!

[chuckufarley]

And Im sure your all done now right?? Lol. 😂😂

[OldMarine]

And Im sure your all done now right?? Lol.

Actually just got back from Hobby Lobby after buying some chipboard! I'm done for tonight....I think...