Making Blackmatch the traditional way

[Ubehage]

Ned Gorski has made a very good, but rather lengthy, video on how to make Blackmatch by hand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NVHXboLsL4

[Nessalco]

That's pretty much how I make blackmatch. I use a different jig for winding -four fiberglass rods 6" long, mounted to a board that spins on a central pivot, and clamps to the table. Each turn of the jig winds two feet of string. I also use shooters wire to tie the bundle - a lot easier to find and untwist than a piece of string.

 

For unwinding I use a traffic cone mounted on a small lazy susan. It automatically unfurls the hank as I pull it through the sizing die onto the match frame.

 

Finally, I made some match loom frames out of PVC pipe that will fit in my dry box. Each holds ~125' of match, and work great for making quickmatch - set 3 frames worth of match out and run pipe over them. Makes 125' of match as quick as a wink. Note: My dry box is dehumidifier based, and the internal temp never exceeds 100F, usually runs about 80F. This avoids problems with KNO3 recrystallizing.

 

Kevin

[NeighborJ]

His videos are very informative BUT I'm developing a resentment with his site firerorking.com. It seems that if you try to make any changes to any of his methods or teqniques and then mention it on the forum it is quickly snuffed out by a closed minded audience. I use a nc/bp slurry for bm but I won't talk about it on his site for fear of getting roasted and directed to watch his video for proper bm. I'm just always looking for an easier, softer way in all aspects of my building and want to bounce ideas off of open minded people for suggestions and constructive criticism or even just to BS.

[memo]

you need to keep a couple grains of salt near by, takem when ever you start feeling bad. life is much easier NJ. keep searching for the serenity.

[DavidF]

Oh come on NeighborJ! During the Passfire days, I walked uphill to and from pyroschool- without shoes- in the snow, and got beatings at recess and lunch! Ned is a pussycat, and the members are kittens, compared. Ned goes to the trouble of learning something, and showing it to others for free. He's been doing it for years. If somebody else comes along with a different way and shows their work, the response is generally quite favorable.

 

Ned has consistently shown me respect, and encouraged me. I've seen him do the same for many many people. There may be some closed minds, as in any group of people. Sometimes it's the naysayers that provide the impetus to succeed. Ned does have a bit of a cult following, because he earned it. Overall, the group is quite friendly, IMHO.

 

APC is just fine in my books too

[OldMarine]

I like it when folks critique my ideas and proffer their own. Even if I don't agree with their methods,I still tend to leave the conversation smarter than before.

At first I was resentful of people riddling my "brain-children" with logic and personal experiences but then realized that's the whole purpose of discussing things.

I agree with Dave that Ned is a good guy!

[NeighborJ]

OM, you beat me to it. I have nothing against Ned, I believe he has nothing but good intentions. The problem I see is that the referral to a thread or video pretty much ends the conversation,along with the possibility of gathering additional information or suggestions. I guess I should start with: I've seen the post so don't bother reposting but if I were to do it this way?

IDK would just like a little debate on the topic even if it was a hairbrain idea.

[Mumbles]

Every forum has their pluses and minuses and their own vibe. There are things that annoy me about Fireworking, just as there are things that annoy me about APC. Nothing is perfect despite Ned and I's best efforts. I haven't been on Passfire in a while, but I shared similar feelings about that site as well when I was. You just have to roll with it and reap the benefits while trying to ignore or deal with the less preferable things.

 

The blackmatch video is good and pretty much how I've always done it with a few small variations. Firstly I use milled powder for this instead of green meal which is appears Ned uses. Judging from the burn of his though, I may rethink that. Milled BP is more violently burning, but that probably doesn't matter too much. I also use dextrin as a binder, even with the addition of starch. I let to totally dry while hanging or stretched out and store it as sticks inside of a tube instead of a coil, but both work equally well.

[OldMarine]

Ned is using the screen mixed powder as part of his experimentation with DaveF's non-milled powder method. He's doing lift tests with it now. It'd be nice to get good BP without milling complete comp!

[NeighborJ]

Need match seems to throw a lot more Sparks than my milled powder and it burns the string completely. I also will try the screen mixed version. I've had to add a touch of MgAl to get side spit in the past.

[OldMarine]

I'm going to try using the laundry starch as a binder since it seems to make a nice flexible match. Dextrin is okay but cracks and flakes a lot at the bends and SGRS was actually too stiff for my liking. I figure I'll spend the crappy part of winter playing with separate component BP.

[starxplor]

This video is part of a 101-series, how to get started in this hobby without as much outlay, hassle or risk as someone without any direction might. He said in the intro he would not be using any milled BP through the whole series.

[patsroom]

Ned Gorski has made a very good, but rather lengthy, video on how to make Blackmatch by hand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NVHXboLsL4

What wrong? Did he leave something out? Long yes, I fell asleep once or twice, so I just watched it again and again and you get the idea. I think that if you look at it as the first time you heard of black match and how to make it he did very well (a very great job) in teaching it to a newbi. Yes of course it was long, but it was meant to teach from the ground up.What the trick is for the rest of us-is to see if there is something of value in there that a pro can gleam from it to use...............Pat

[OldMarine]

I think that since fuse is second only to BP in fireworking Ned felt it imperative that a newbie has the best possible chance of getting it right and thus the in depth video. How discouraged would a fellow be if after spending half a day ramming gerbs for a set piece he finds his match won't even burn in a match-pipe?

[dagabu]

This method of making BM sure sounds like all the bugs have been worked out. I bought some Argo to try this method out.

[Raceman17]

I tried the method this morning. Followed pretty much everything Ned pointed out except I used some 3 sting cotton string that had 6 strands in each string. I made about 65 ft of it. I had what appeared to be half a batch of BP mix left over after working it into the strings. I strung it out between two post for a few hrs and then collected it in a bucket and put it in the drying box. I tested some a few hrs after being in the box and it burns like Ned's does. You definitely need to use a cone or something shaped like a cone to help unwrap the jumble of sting after coating. That's the ticket for the whole operation IMO.

[patsroom]

Looks like to me that afew here who watched the video have gleam some ideas from Neds video and are quick to try that new information out. As I first pointed out in the other topic (Good for all New videos) I thought that it was going to be something that we all could learn from, whether just getting into the hobby as a newbe or have been doing it for awhile. I for one have wonder as to (and if) which starch would work and how to use it in the possess. For me that video anwsered the question and I too will be making my black match in a new way. I do believe that other types of powder starches would work of course, but as for me I well stay with what Ned's video showed.

By the way he has also introduced me to a new pyro chemical store as well and the prices do not look to be to bad......................Pat

[patsroom]

I tried the method this morning. Followed pretty much everything Ned pointed out except I used some 3 sting cotton string that had 6 strands in each string. I made about 65 ft of it. I had what appeared to be half a batch of BP mix left over after working it into the strings. I strung it out between two post for a few hrs and then collected it in a bucket and put it in the drying box. I tested some a few hrs after being in the box and it burns like Ned's does. You definitely need to use a cone or something shaped like a cone to help unwrap the jumble of sting after coating. That's the ticket for the whole operation IMO.

Just being nosey. What did you do with the remaining BM mix? Where you able to use the remainer in another project or just dumped it out?...............Pat

[OldMarine]

You can add screen mixed BP to the leftover slurry and granulate it for use as Polverone.

[Raceman17]

Just being nosey. What did you do with the remaining BM mix? Where you able to use the remainer in another project or just dumped it out?...............Pat

I watered it down and dumped it out. I looked at the black match this morning that was in the box for the rest of the day. It seems like it will flex pretty good without the BP flaking off.

[Fotia]

Do you think the starch could replace dextrin in any formula?

[lloyd]

No. Starch is not water-soluble until heated in the water. Even then, it doesn't form a 'glue', per se. It has no 'adhesive' properties, in its native form. (even in water) Dextrin is not an 'ingredient', it's the binder that glues the whole mass together.

 

But you can convert starch to dextrin by baking it, dry. Look it up!

 

Lloyd

Edited January 25, 2017 by lloyd

[Fotia]

I didn't watch all of the video as I don't want to use up all my data on the phone. So the starch in the BP slurry for the QM is not converted to "dextrin"?

[lloyd]

Starch doesn't 'convert' to dextrin until it's been baked (dry) in an oven. Look it up, friend!

 

Try some simple search term like "converting corn starch to dextrin" on the web!

 

Lloyd

[Mumbles]

The starch in wheat paste or laundry starch of some sort is gelatanized but not necessarily hydrolyzed into dextrin. There is probably some minor conversion, but not really enough to be practical. You may see some uninformed or inexperienced people adding starch as a binder to some stars, but they're basically functioning on the binding power of the water and other components of the stars, not the starch.

 

To make dextrin you need to break up the starch into shorter chains (dextrins). This can be accomplished by roasting in the region of 350-400F. Adding an acid is known to help this process, and perhaps allow it to be made at a lower temperature. Most of the best commercial dextrins I've used are made via an acid process, though this is not common for people to do at home due to equipment differences. Alternatively it can be made enzymatically at much lower temperatures, which is related to how grain is converted to fermentable liquids for beer production.

 

Now on the other hand using flour instead of pure starch introduces gluten into the mix. As it dries or sits there the gluten will cross-link the mixture and turn it into a suitable adhesive. This is the concept behind wall paper paste which is used to bind some comets and other pyro applications. Even still, it's nearly always used in conjunction with dextrin or another binder.