Random luck

[OrionSpectre]

So I was walking to my grandmother's car from school to go home, when I looked next to the path and found this spent Estes C6-5 rocket motor. We have a rocketry club, but I don't know why it was there. Maybe the ejection charge pushed it out? It is probably two days to a week old, since I've looked at that area many times before. It's dry and stiff, so no signs of water damage, and the fuel is all gone, yet the smell lingers strongly. So now I'm wondering what to do with it, and I've thought of two options. Option A is I keep it until I have the capability to refill it. Option B is I cut a lengthwise strip out of a quarter of it to study it, though I doubt I will learn much at all. What should I do?

Edited November 30, 2016 by OrionSpectre

[NeighborJ]

Lots of Pyros have reloaded Estes motors with sugar rocket fuel. It works best with the A8-3 motors because they have been exposed to less burning fuel but even the c motors have enough wall thickness to handle it. Edited November 30, 2016 by NeighborJ

[OrionSpectre]

Lots of Pyros have reloaded Estes motors with sugar rocket fuel. It works best with the A8-3 motors because they have been exposed to less burning fuel but even the c motors have enough wall thickness to handle it.

So how many shots do you think a C-class can take before it has a large chance of failure or explosion?

[NeighborJ]

Well I'd only try one reload, you'll find the inner walls start to delaminate, wrinkle, and flake away. But I suppose it's possible to reload it several times before it burns thru. I never wanted to push it in a model rocket.

[dagabu]

Many years ago, these motor casings were made by the New England Paper Tube company or NEPT, as we in pyro call them. You can soak it in water and unroll them after a few of soaking but we have already done that so you dont have to any longer. Here is Steve LaDuke holding one of them in its uncut state:

 

http://pyrobin.com/files/img_1202.jpg

 

I went with option 1 because you can make a nozzleless rocket with the tube and it will hold the pressure fine. Sugar rocket? Probably not. Its not just the condition of the tube you can see but the heat on the tube and how it starts to break down the adhesive and paper. It's best to not put too much pressure on that tube a second time.

[OrionSpectre]

I'm planning on performing a static fire test on it to get a feel for the forces I'm dealing with. Can I just duct tape it on a brick?

[dagabu]

Tape it to a rod and face the nozzle up in the air. you can see the plume and keep control of the motor.

[OrionSpectre]

I believe I have some rusty horseshoes stakes lying around somewhere. Will that work?

[OrionSpectre]

So, should I try my hand at making it completely makeshift by making my own fuse, or is that pushing it too far?

[otto]

Many years ago, these motor casings were made by the New England Paper Tube company or NEPT, as we in pyro call them. You can soak it in water and unroll them after a few of soaking but we have already done that so you dont have to any longer. Here is Steve LaDuke holding one of them in its uncut state:

 

http://pyrobin.com/files/img_1202.jpg

 

I went with option 1 because you can make a nozzleless rocket with the tube and it will hold the pressure fine. Sugar rocket? Probably not. Its not just the condition of the tube you can see but the heat on the tube and how it starts to break down the adhesive and paper. It's best to not put too much pressure on that tube a second time.

Gotta love that sweatshirt on LaDuke......

 

Yeah off topic. Darn the luck.

 

Back on topic, I saved most of the tubes from commercial cake we shot this past year. Not great but good enough for another pop of something.

[OrionSpectre]

So, what fuel would be ideal?

[OrionSpectre]

Also, an idea ran through my head involving Sugar/KNO3 with baking soda to make a handheld smoke flare. Does that sound doable? And if so, how does one color it?

[NeighborJ]

Orion, sugar and kno3 make an impressive smoke bomb and the smoke is white. The color smokes use KCLO3 and various dyes, they are not recommended to make without proper safety knowledge of Chlorate. The white smoke is a PERFECT first project.

[OrionSpectre]

How safe is throwing a C6-5 with a fuel of KNO3, sugar, and baking soda with gardening gloves? I don't have heavy duty, fire resistant, insulated work gloves. Edited December 2, 2016 by OrionSpectre

[Mumbles]

Don't. I wouldn't pick up or try to throw anything, at least not at your level of experience.

[OrionSpectre]

Oh, well. On a different note, would soaking sugar in peroxide make it a pyrotechnic composition, or is that guaranteed to blow up in my face?

[NeighborJ]

Palm to forehead. I will reiterate that hydrogen peroxide is not used in pyro, for one thing it is not sold OTC in high enough concentrations to be of any use. Secondly if you could find it, I can't conceive of a good use which couldn't be done with the more accessible KNO3. Thirdly, it reacts with organic compounds so a mixture cannot be made. It may be able to be used in some way, shape or form but I am unaware of it except as a high explosive. So I say no thank you.

[alexpyro101]

Oh, well. On a different note, would soaking sugar in peroxide make it a pyrotechnic composition, or is that guaranteed to blow up in my face?

what is up with you and peroxide?

[MrB]

what is up with you and peroxide?

Dunno about him, but i have had great success with it for primary explosives, and redox boosting the aquarium. With that in mind... Sugar is a carbon source, and the peroxides will boost redox. Perhaps he's just trying to get advice on how to get the bacteria thriving in his aquarium?

I'd suggest sticking to basics there too, honestly.

B!

[OrionSpectre]

I just once heard that it was one of the most powerful common oxidizers.

[Mumbles]

Chemically powerful, yes. Useful in any real way to pyrotechnics, no. It's more powerful in the chemically able to oxidize materials sort of way, not in a rapidly burning composition sort of way.

[NeighborJ]

Aaah, yes it is an oxidizer and it is strong but being a liquid and of a potency of 3% solution it won't work for pyro. But it will oxidize metals and organic matter quite well even at three percent. Oxidisers have many uses but the ones we find useful in pyro are the less hygroscopic ones which narrows the field down to a small group and cost makes others less attractive also.

[OrionSpectre]

If I may bring the topic to less controversial grounds, my mother will not allow me to acquire KNO₃, for reasons one may come to expect from a mother. I have persisted for months and come to the same conclusion. I don't know what to do anymore, I really want to pursue pyrotechnics, but I can't do that without the proper materials. I'm really at a standstill, and I'm afraid of losing this as a hobby. Any advice?

[lloyd]

The only recommendation I can make is for you to turn 18 (or 21, or whatever the 'independent age' is in your state), then do what you wish -- with the provision that you might also have to provide your own housing to do it!

 

Lloyd

[OldMarine]

I'd find a model rocketry club in your area. They're often open to teens with parental permission and would give you the joy of lighting off rockets along with some safety and construction training which may convince Mom you are a responsible fella.