Awww, ain't it cute?

[NeighborJ]

Just goofing around. Working on a 1-1/2" multibreak. I know this isn't the normal method of constructing a multibreak but I just figured I'd try making whole single shells and then fuse them after the first layer of pasting due to the lack of room. I have a buttered popcorn, a veline green, and the bottom shot. Tomorrow I will make a third orange shell. The timing will be short, only 1-1/2 sec due to the small fast burning stars. I don't have a tube for it so I may end up launching it with a rocket. If this one works well, I may make more.

Edited November 22, 2016 by NeighborJ

[alwayslearning]

I would love to see a video of it when you do shoot it. I'd like to try a small multi but not sure if it would work. Couldn't have much delay between because of altitude.

[NeighborJ]

I will definitely take a video when I do. I'm having trouble finding a way to fuse it. The first attempt had a spollete and left no room for burst, so these have no spolletes and will be fused with fast visco. It's the timing which is proving to be complicated, a lot of ways it can go wrong. I like simple because it is usually the most reliable.

[alwayslearning]

Does fast visco burn internally like time fuse? If it does it might work. I have a ways to go before I can try it.

[NeighborJ]

The three types of visco I have do not burn like time fuse, I have 1 sec per ft, 3 sec per ft and 30 sec per ft. Or I've been considering making one spollete at the bottom of the multibreak then drilling three holes in the sidewall at appropriate timing, then fusing each shell directly too that one spollete. It would mean having three separate qm tubes on the outside of the shell and the bottom shot triggered by the spollete directly. This would be the most simple setup I can conceive for this tiny shell.

[BlueComet24]

Nice craftsmanship, NJ. I enjoy small items that take precise and intricate construction.

 

Does fast visco burn internally like time fuse? If it does it might work. I have a ways to go before I can try it.

 

No, it burns just like regular visco. Fusing shells with visco can be done by wrapping the part that will be inside the shell with something like masking tape to make it like a narrower time fuse. This way it's possible to get nice, round, even breaks by starting the burst in the center of the shell.

[Wiley]

Hey, lookit that! By 1.5", do you mean a 1.5" former, or that it's meant to be shot from a 1.5" mortar? If it's the latter, then that's a mighty small shell. If you're using a 1.5" former, I've made many with a 1.625" former, all fused with spolettes. I've made inserts as small as 1.375" ID with spolettes, and they worked fine. Just have to roll your own tubes.

[Sparx88]

I have done this almost exactly as you are with 1 1/2" cans. It absolutely works great. Your making them like I do, traditional. 2" hp pvc from lowes fits them ok. I use 3m 1/2" foam weather stripping for doors etc and put one wrap around at the bottom just above the lift. This seals up the fit real nice it barely makes contact approx 3/16" gap all around and it doesn't affect the break. Oh and use some wads of toilet paper to cushion between the shells and still draw them in tight together with no more than a 1/4" gap between. That's about it. Looking forward to seeing how it goes for you

[NeighborJ]

Thanks all for the nice comments, to answer your questions: the former is a 4# rammer so the id is 1-1/4" so the od should be 1-1/2" after spiking and pasteing. It may fit into a 1.75" tube but I'd want a heavy duty tube for a multi. The bottom shot is made from a section of 4# heavy wall tube. If I used smaller comets I may have been able to use a spollete but with 7/16" ones there isn't enough room. The burst is lightly flash dusted mcrh and if I do it again I'll use granulated BP. This shell is like making a ship in a bottle, takes a steady hand placing the comets with tweezers.

Fusing with a single spollete and three qm tubes seems the way to go but doing it that way forces me to use a rocket due to the external spollete. I can think of nearly 100 things I could do differently an likely will on future builds.

Thanks Jason.

[NeighborJ]

OK I've not launched the original multibreak she'll yet because I wanted to do some tests with the fusing. This is a pic and video of the first fusing test. I used the motor in place of the spollete. Added two seconds of whistle fuel to the delay section with well placed holes to pass fire to each fuse. It didn't work out as planned because once the fire reached the first passfire it all burned almost instantaneously, this caused a machine gun salute. I will make another with only BP in the fuse section.

This is a 2-oz whistle lifting four 30g salutes, I may need a shorter spindle or a heavier payload next time also, it went too high.

[Wiley]

I'm confused as to how you're making this now. What do you mean by "a single spolette and 3 qm tubes?" It looks from the rocket photo like you've got a separate fuse going to each break. If that's the case, I'm sure you're aware that this is not at all the way that these shells are meant to be made. A multi-break shell by definition is one where each subsequent break takes fire from the burst of the preceding break. You can do it with spolettes or time fuse. I use spolettes for my long 1.75" multis because I can get short 1-second timings out of them, like this:

 

 

 

I'm glad you're steering away from rice hulls in favor of granulated black powder. Rice hulls have no place in multiple-break cylinder shells. I burst my small, 1.75" multis with flash bags, and the stars are 1/4" cut, packed in polverone. There is absolutely no need to put any paper, such as toilet paper, in between the breaks as a "cushion." These shells are meant to be rigid, and adding something soft between the breaks could cause a failure in that area.

 

The way mine are made is slightly different from what's described in Fulcanelli, but it's what I came up with to make small shells of this many breaks. The bottom of each break is fitted with a wooden plug, and the breaks are then filled individually. The bottom most break, or color-to-report assembly, is spiked first, longitudinally only. A pasted skirt is applied to that break and allowed to dry. The spolette is matched, and one of the separate breaks is selected. The plug in the separate break is removed, and the matched spolette of the spiked bottom break is pushed into it. That break is spiked onto the last break, again, longitudinally only, taking care to lay the spiking in between the spiking on the last break. This process is repeated until the first break is added. When the longitudinal spiking on the first break is finished, spiral steeply down to the bottom of the assembly, then begin winding back up toward the first break, making "little squares" on the breaks as you go, and laying the string close together in a "band" where each of the breaks are joined. The shell is then pasted in 2 turns of 70#, dried, lifted, and leadered.

 

I can post some pics if you're interested.

 

And for the love of all that is holy, never fire anything heavier than a small comet out of PVC. That's just begging for a nasty failure.

[Mumbles]

These shells should be able to be finished with an OD of less than 1.5" If you're running into a tight fit using thinner spiking twine like hemp or flax can help shave off some diameter. I use this size of shell as an insert all the time, and they consistently come out around 1.375". Might I suggest a 6lb rocket tube as a mortar. Pyro Direct offers 1.5" HDPE tubes, but it appears that they're out of stock at the moment. You might want to inquire to some of the other tube manufacturers to see if they can source them or look into getting an HDPE stick yourself.

 

Quick visco is not particularly suited to this purpose and is rather prone to taking fire from the side as you have found out. Making spolettes from 1/4" ID x 3/8" OD tubes should still fit, even with your comets. If you're concerned about burst, you can fill above and below the comets with BP or polverone where the spolette actually sits or is inserted. The delay for something like this will only be about 3/8" to 1/2" long. The tubes can be trimmed down in length to take up less real estate. Alternatively, that 30 sec/ft visco can be wrapped in a band of foil, paper or tape to essentially quell the side spit and make a makeshift time fuse that can be rolled to whatever diameter you feel like. Phenolic tubes also make great microspolettes and can be purchased so as to take up no more room than timefuse.

 

This general type of building is not unprecedented, but there are right and wrong ways to do it. I'm not sure if you're familiar with how WASP shells are pasted and fused, but the idea is similar. A passfire tube is installed in the side of the shell instead of the ends basically flush with the side of the shell, and the shell is filled, spiked, and pasted basically as normal. A piece of tissue paper can be used on the inside end of the spolette to keep things inside if needed. Conveniently, those 3/8" OD tubes I just mentioned should be about the right size to take up the place of exactly 1 comet of yours. Afterwards you pierce the pasting where the passfire tube is located. WASPs use magnets to locate this hole, but on a cylinder shell it's easy to see visually. The passfire tube has the tissue paper pierced, and the tube is filled with granular BP or blackmatch. You can then insert and glue a piece of timefuse or spolette into the passfire tube and it can be primed with BP slurry and granular BP. Of course if you're not going to paste at all, you can just insert a small spolette directly into the shell.

 

The shell should probably be spiked together and pasted together before doing this. If mortar firing all the primings should light from the lift, but you can light them with the quickmatch too just for insurance. If you're firing on a rocket I presume the fusing would be similar to adding a comet to the top where the fusing is split to light both the comet and the rocket.

[NeighborJ]

Uh, calm down guys, this is just a test. There is nothing traditional about this shell, I simply wanted to test the mulitaping of a long rocket delay for igniting multiple devices. I believe there is nothing wrong with doing this.

As for the shell construction, I never intend to fuse shells thru the side. These were salutes which I had pre-made for another project so the spiking was already on them and fusing was thrown in the sides. There is no wading between them, they were only strung together with vertical Strings and a double clove hitch was placed between each shell to hold them all together. Quick and dirty. The failure in this test (as Mumbles said) was likely due to the unprotected fast fuse. I will use bm next time and likely do it on the ground to avoid harassment from Wiely over the improperly constructed shell. When testing is done, then I will construct it normally with the exception of passing fire from one shell to the other.

This test could have been done on the ground but it's more fun to put it in the air.

 

By the way there was never any PVC within 1000ft of this rocket, it was launched from a steel patio umbrella support which I've rescued from the trash.

[Wiley]

Neighbor, if you direct your attention to post #8, you will see that member make two recommendations, one to put soft paper wadding between the breaks and another to shoot multi-break shells from PVC. Both of those could be problematic for you or for someone coming along and reading this. There's actually a third recommendation there that I didn't mention, but is simply unnecessary if your lift powder is any good. I can see how you may have imagined that my comments were directed at you, but they were in fact aimed at anyone reading the above posts.

 

I'm not known for "harassing" people on the Internet or otherwise, but I do have a tendency to offer constructive advice where I deem someone may find it useful. I personally found the comment about performing a test on the ground to avoid the aforementioned "harassment" quite amusing. As long as we are in this open forum format, that meddlesome advice will keep on coming

 

In regards to the failure, it could have been, as you say, a result of crossfiring visco. The ragged sound of the reports could support this idea. Another point to keep in mind is that if salutes are in direct contact with other salutes, and one of them explodes, it typically destroys all the others in one big bang.

[NeighborJ]

Wiley, I owe you an apology, even if your comments were directed toward me, I'm certainly not perfect. I didn't make the Eighth post connection. I too was worried about having a group detonation from the salutes. They all went off individually but in rapid succession, the echos coming back from the distant hills gave me a chance to listen again thou it wasn't audible on the video. I used a slower flash on the salutes. When I do this again I will use up some sali whistle mix which has degraded. Waste not want not. Edited November 30, 2016 by NeighborJ

[Wiley]

No hard feelin's, Neighbor. I look forward to seeing your progress.

[Sparx88]

Thanks for correcting me Wiley. Not PVC, hdpe. Pvc will break. I tried them in the past and they always break at the cap. As far as what you do between the shells it's your call, - do what works for you.-

[NeighborJ]

I'm looking for suggestions with time delay fusing between breaks. I've been trying different methods with these tiny shells and each method seems to have their downfalls. Space is at a premium the area for burst and fusing is only about 7/16" round and no longer than 2". I've made a few shells using foil tape insulated visco with a bologna cut and a few strands of bm taped around the cut, but this still does not leave enough room for much burst especially with a fuse protruding from each end. I'm thinking of also switching from flash dusted,granulated BP to a granulated mix(50/50) of NC bound BP and flash to save room and improve the burst, I've used this burst before in 1" round plastic cake shells.

I've seen salutes made with a crude spiking and fused in the side with a spackling of BP slurrie. I'm wondering if this delay spackle could be used on the ends of each shell for timing? If it would work I could even make the multibreaks smaller.

[Sparx88]

I use american 3/32 visco wrapped with aluminum tape and dipped into bp/nc mix on the ends. I use the thicker aluminum tape that has the extra tack/adhesive. 1 wrap is about 1/4" od. You only need the end touching the burst. With these little one's it's not critical to have the fuse light the center of the burst on the second or third shell. It's too long of delay sometimes. There are some other ways, this one I like.

[NeighborJ]

Here's a pic of NC dipped in BP on left and the bologna cut visco with black match on right. The bm works much better and has had 100% ignition rate so far on inserts. The NC is closer to 80% ignition.