stix Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 No, No NO. You don't NEED to join a club. Just be careful. I certainly wouldn't want to be part of a club that would accept me as a member.
douglas423 Posted November 6, 2016 Author Posted November 6, 2016 I don't have problems with land for launching it. My family has land as I said before. How old do you have to be to join a rocket club? I'm pretty sure over 18, which I'm not.
gdeputy Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 Tripoli clubs welcome junior members, although you may have a hard time finding someone to mentor you at <18 years. Cant even buy commercial motors at that age due to CPSC requirements. But doesnt mean its not possible.
NeighborJ Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 When I was 16, I belonged to two rocketry clubs. Those guys would bend over backwards to help out a JR member. Even though I wasn't allowed to purchase the motors, there was always someone who would step up and buy the motor, as long as I'd provide the $ and the rocket. And later on a few guys helped with chems and lathes/tools as long as it was at least loosely under their supervision. In some ways it was great but in other ways it never forced me to learn some of the basics of rocket design, because I relied heavily on the knowledge of those guys and never progressed beyond making reloads for commercial motors. But now I've been studying up and drawing knowledge from these guys here at apc. The people at the club will not allow you to make big mistakes and if you ask they will be more than willing to provide the info and help if you are willing to accept it. All the info you need is also here but you will need to sift through the topics and search for the info you want only to find that your idea is headed in the wrong direction.
Redrocketman Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 Eg, I run my smaller 1 -3/4" I class motors at over 1000psi, smaller G class at 650psi. Larger 54mm K & L class run lower at around 500, due to the loss of case strength in larger diameter pvc. Ive seen massive erosion in aluminim nozzles in yery large sugar motors, they only use stainless - in the SS2S program tho!!
Arthur Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 Douglas, your family may well allow you to use their land BUT they cannot authorise you to use the airspace above it. 1/ that airspace will "belong" to the FAA and be well scattered with airliners, private and military planes, and 2/ that airspace will be watched by defence radar to spot precisely odd rockets that no-one is expecting that could be military as either broken arrows or enemy attacks. In today's terrorist alert environment you need to keep your activities well clear of anything that could be mistaken for terrorist activity. 3/ your rocket will land somewhere, you have to have a landing site and a reasonable method to get your descending rocket to go there, (10 kilos of rocket comes down supersonic and makes a crater (in a house!) or it falls by parachute and drifts with the wind for about 20 miles. Hopefully the rocketry society will help you sort out all these details and help you to get a safe flight.
douglas423 Posted November 7, 2016 Author Posted November 7, 2016 Honestly I already addressed the issue of airspace previously. That's not the problem I have been having.
Mumbles Posted November 7, 2016 Posted November 7, 2016 An app is not sufficient for addressing it. Look, we are legitimately trying to help and want you to succeed but not at the expense of safety or legality. Thus far you've mostly been ignoring sound advice and suggestions because it's inconvenient or does not currently fit your designs or ideas. I'd suggest changing your attitude and your outlook. Just because you are under 18 does not mean you need to flaunt that fact with arrogance and immaturity.
NeighborJ Posted November 7, 2016 Posted November 7, 2016 I'm arrogant.... and immature. Can I be scolded too? I don't think I'll grow out of it anytime soon even though I may want too.
Arthur Posted November 7, 2016 Posted November 7, 2016 You cannot address the airspace issue without the help of the FAA, if they refuse to allow you to use airspace you cannot fire anything. They are much more likely to close some airspace for a club or society of amateur rocketeers that for a single young person. While Apps may indicate some of the civil airliner traffic they certainly will NOT indicate any of the military traffic, they are also a lot too fragile in terms of reliability to use for safety critical assignments. These days if you penetrate into aviation airspace your intrusion will be tracked and you may well get caught up with counter terrorism or homeland security, or be wanted by the Mexicans if your rocket recovery drift takes you into their airspace. Your tests can be done with some instrumentation to determine thrust, thrust profile and time of burn. Either fire the motor upside down, in a crater in the ground, so it can't fly off or spread shrapnel, OR build a test rig in a horizontal plane with thrust sensors and data logging, protect against cato and shrapnel damage.
dagabu Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 I'm arrogant.... and immature. Can I be scolded too? I don't think I'll grow out of it anytime soon even though I may want too. Perhaps you need a spanking! LOL! Sorry about that but I could not resist!
NeighborJ Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 Glad to see I'm not the only immature one here. :-)~~~
OldMarine Posted November 8, 2016 Posted November 8, 2016 Glad to see I'm not the only immature one here. :-)~~~I prefer "child-like" thank you very much!
Redrocketman Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 Give him a good Ol "clip round the earhole" sorted me out!! Now boy, listen to the sound, safe, common sense advice offered to you. The ramifications of your future screw up will affect not only you but the general perspective & future rights of all who enjoy this most rewarding hobby ( obsession!!?? ). Part of the reward is applying yourself safely, meticulously and taking into account that the second that rocket leaves the rail it's out of your hands & on the ride alone. You MUST ensure that you can steer it back safely before you even launch it. This done in the way of a) launch and recovery area weather conditions c) preparation and application of reliable recovery system d) safe and correct set up of your equipment. Once all this has been assessed and deemed suitable, go ahead arm, count down from 5 & hit the switch!! Good luck, & be safePS, I lost one last week, must have gone 4 - 5 km easy. Don't know exactly where it landed ( or it wouldn't be lost... ) but I do know it was vacant clear land. It can/will happen to anyone, now I'm down to 7......!!!
Arthur Posted November 9, 2016 Posted November 9, 2016 Ultimately if your rocket hits an airliner, you will stand trial for 450 counts of murder, which could be negative to your adult life. Get caught by radar and get hurt as a full spectrum of law enforcement officers all aim to get to you first. In the UK someone iladvisedly flew a drone over a submarine base, they caught him and he did time for it, don't think they will not find you.
douglas423 Posted November 10, 2016 Author Posted November 10, 2016 I previously said i would be filling out a FAA form for my airspace.
NeighborJ Posted November 10, 2016 Posted November 10, 2016 OK, so let's put the safety, FAA, and motor design on the shelf for a while. What are your plans for recovery? Streamer, then chute? What means of deployment are you planning on using (flight controler)? Construction materials of fins body tube and nose cone?
douglas423 Posted November 10, 2016 Author Posted November 10, 2016 Shouldn't I have a working motor before parachute?🤔
NeighborJ Posted November 10, 2016 Posted November 10, 2016 Well, it should not be underestimated. A parachute and recovery system may seem to be the easy part but it can get very complex with high altitude flights if you plan on getting it back and locate it. I know I've spent hundreds on altimeter, GPS locators and camera equipment.
Arthur Posted November 10, 2016 Posted November 10, 2016 Amateur rocketry lets you design things, a whole system! Pick a size then chose a motor then chose the flight controller (chip set) then chose the recovery system. Sometimes you may want more than one parachute otherwise it will drift a very long way. remember also that some rockets will get lost -could be two states away! and have to be rebuilt.
dagabu Posted November 11, 2016 Posted November 11, 2016 This whole conversation is just like the conversation I had with my oldest boy. "Dad, I want to rebuild a 350 long block and bore it out to 375!" Great idea, "Um, Nick, when you getting a job?" Horses dont push carts, if you are going to ever build a working rocket, you don't think of on aspect but of the rocket as a whole. 1
douglas423 Posted November 11, 2016 Author Posted November 11, 2016 I have been thinking of the rocket as a whole but if I don't even have a working motor is it a rocket? Like really. Honestly I'm going to just work on it by myself and do a lot of research online and talk to some people. I'm done with forums for now. Thanks for the advice guys. 1
dagabu Posted November 11, 2016 Posted November 11, 2016 Says the kid that reinvents the wheel only to find octagons don't roll as well as circles.... Good luck kid, come back once you are willing to listen as well as talk.
stix Posted November 11, 2016 Posted November 11, 2016 I have been thinking of the rocket as a whole but if I don't even have a working motor is it a rocket? Like really..... Good point. Personally I love mucking around with different fuels and motor configurations - experimentation. In the back of my mind there is the actual "Rocket" but it's not a necessity. I get enjoyment out of testing motors, mechanical devices, software etc. Unfortunately where I live (and most of us) actually launching a "big one" comes with a lot of real consequences. It's also easy enough to hurt yourself badly (and others). This may seem like some "negativity" of this thread and your ideas. The reality is people on this forum are genuine and very knowledgeable and concerned about your safety. Go off elsewhere and get other info - it's a good thing. Make sure though that you check back here. Cheers.
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