douglas423 Posted October 18, 2016 Posted October 18, 2016 I started working on a pretty light aluminum rocket. I machined a nozzle out of a aluminum rod 2.375" in diameter 3.5" long. It is about 3' long and weighs a little more than 2.3lb without fuel. Here is a test video with 183 grams of flexible fuel. Ill end up using more few in the next test(s).
gdeputy Posted October 18, 2016 Posted October 18, 2016 Have you considered getting with your local rocket club so you're not reinventing the wheel here? Experimental rockets is a well established hobby, and you would probably have a lot more fun at the state of the art (motors up to 1000's of lbs of thrust) rather than reinventing the wheel on such a small scale.
douglas423 Posted October 18, 2016 Author Posted October 18, 2016 (edited) How am I "reinventing the wheel"? I testing my rocket and wanted to share and see how I could improve it. Pretty sure it's a rocket and not a wheel, you might have to take a closer look. Edited October 18, 2016 by douglas423
gdeputy Posted October 18, 2016 Posted October 18, 2016 It is pretty hard to see what is going on in that video. Sorry, what i mean is if you want to get into making your own propellant and using aluminum cases/airframes/ect, you could benefit from what others have been doing for years and skip a lot of the mistakes made early on. What sort of propellant are you working with, APCP? Something else? There are many rocket clubs in the US (assuming thats where you are) and some outside the us as well. Most research motor folks are happy to bring people into the hobby. Some even do organized classes. Ideal is to get in with someone who is mixing a batch of propellant, see how its done, and then you can turn around and do some yourself skipping a ton of the pitfalls.
douglas423 Posted October 18, 2016 Author Posted October 18, 2016 As I put in my original post it's flexible fuel, kno3 corn syrup and sugar. I realize there are clubs for this but what is this forum for then? I'm looking to experiment and not just buy all the stuff and just assemble it. I'm testing out fuels and ways of making my rocket on a budget and not spending a ton of money. This is a forum isn't it? For this type of post? And you basically telling me it's not for discussing this stuff.
gdeputy Posted October 18, 2016 Posted October 18, 2016 um....I'm not telling you that at all, nor do i want to discourage you from experimenting. Sorry if you got that impression. I'm also not suggesting you search out commercial motor clubs, i'm talking about those who make their own propellant. The most common is APCP (Ammonium perchlorate composite propellant), which is mixed and cast into grains, flown in aluminum cases using graphite nozzles, etc..... All kinds of fun stuff to be done there. Lots of people doing sugar based propellants as well, but you're pretty limited on scale, in a practical sense. There is a group attempting to put a sugar propellant rocket over 100k or something, but its tough to scale it that large. Whats your goal? Just to get a rocket to work? Do you want to reach a specific altitude? Lift a payload? Make a motor of a certain size?
douglas423 Posted October 18, 2016 Author Posted October 18, 2016 I ordered some Ammonium perchlorate rate today to make APCP. I realize I could join a club and go launch it with a group but I'm not going for that. My first goal is to take many photos high up and maybe some data just to prove I can do it. I have always loved space and wanted to make my own rocket. I want to build one. I want to possibly build one that will go to the edge of the atmosphere at around there. It's a far away goal but maybe in a few years.
OldMarine Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 I ordered some Ammonium perchlorate rate today to make APCP. I realize I could join a club and go launch it with a group but I'm not going for that. My first goal is to take many photos high up and maybe some data just to prove I can do it. I have always loved space and wanted to make my own rocket. I want to build one. I want to possibly build one that will go to the edge of the atmosphere at around there. It's a far away goal but maybe in a few years.Aim for the stars!!Dodge the trees.
gdeputy Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 Sounds good, just keep in mind people are already doing exactly that, and you could be too much faster. Be careful not to run afoul of the law and FAA on larger rockets and higher flights. Experimental rockets over a couple lbs require FAA notification and a waiver. one of the main reasons rocket clubs start up, to find a good launch site and make it easier to get through the FAA hurtles.
Arthur Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 Once you want to put anything into the sky you have to consider other users of that sky. 1500ft AGL is nothing for a good rocket but well into aviation uses of the sky. Join a club of rocketeers with a shooting site and test site with FAA permission. This forum is good for the pyro information but few know accurately about airspace restrictions in your home area. Realistically a good rocket should reach 150,000 feet which is through light aircraft heights, commercial, military and specialist aircraft airspace. You need a test location and a flying location before some aircraft captain sees your rocket as will primary radar.
sitas Posted October 19, 2016 Posted October 19, 2016 Douglas, don't be so defensive here. These guys are telling you like it is. The laws have gotten a lot tougher with the drones and all. AND they are checking. APcp is not for beginners . If you check things out ,a lot of places won't sell you anything related to high power with out a registration number . The only way you can get one is to become certified. That starts out with the certifiying organization by teaching you how to walk , with rockets , so to speak.Some of this stuff can easily put you away or at least make you wish you were.Please, for your own gain, heed what has been said.
Arthur Posted October 20, 2016 Posted October 20, 2016 Rockets to about 300ft high are 4th July/5th November playthings with little restriction. Once you want to go higher than that you must consider other airspace users, especially the thin cigar tubes with 500 souls on board. Clubs and societies exist for high power rocketry, try to join one, You will get all the benefits of available theory and practical and airspace availability.
douglas423 Posted October 20, 2016 Author Posted October 20, 2016 Atleast from the sites I looked at I was able to order the AP with no problem. I have a little back from doing some chemistry in my home lab on some chemicals. For the airspace and location my family owns a few hundred acres of farm land we don't use. I'm a month or few months away from a launch. Soon I'm going to ask my local fire marshel about it. There is an app called Plane Finder that shows all planes around the world both personal and commercial. It shows their route and is a live update. I will partially use that to make sure I can launch as well as not having a wind speed over 5mph.
Arthur Posted October 20, 2016 Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) There will be a controlling authority for the airspace wherever you live. The higher airspace will likely be military, the rest may be civil airspace of various categories. The aim height for high power rocketry will be well higher than the civil controlled airspace, the military will not publish their routine flights let alone anything operational or air intel or development flying, and you intend to go past flying airspace into low space flight. Have you thought out a recovery process? Your rocket will not vanish, it needs to have a means of recovery without it using the local police building as a crash pad. Edited October 20, 2016 by Arthur
douglas423 Posted October 21, 2016 Author Posted October 21, 2016 As i said in my post above I'm gonna ask my local fire marshal for some information. I'll look into the airspace information as well. For my recovery process I'm not there yet. It will be a month or more before I will even consider launching it.
MrB Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 I will partially use that to make sure I can launch as well as not having a wind speed over 5mph. At a couple of 100 feet, that is a none-existent condition.Look. I don't care, you can fly your rocket out of your backyard, in the middle of the dry season, without the fire marshals knowledge.But you should be warned about your actions. There is no way a fire marshal has the authority to clear a launch like this on his own, there is a bunch of legal restrictions in-place to make sure the airspace isn't in danger. And, if you approach the fire marshal without a basic understanding of these rules, not only will he shut you down, entirely, he might well send someone over to collect your gear, and destroy it. If you are lucky, without legal ramifications. Join a club. They have "shoot events" where someone other then you deals with all the involved officials that needs to be managed to get something like this of the ground.Or, plan on launching from international waters. That is an alternative. Just saying. Anyway, after all that. I hope you don't give up, go for it, and good luck!.B!
Arthur Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 As you are already into APCP you will be penetrating civil and or military airspace. You NEED clearance through both, which is best achieved through a rocketry club or society. Otherwise "terrorist brings down airliner" will be what the newspapers tell the world about you.
stix Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) Have you considered getting with your local rocket club so you're not reinventing the wheel here? Experimental rockets is a well established hobby, and you would probably have a lot more fun at the state of the art (motors up to 1000's of lbs of thrust) rather than reinventing the wheel on such a small scale. To some people, the "fun" is in the experimenting - regardless of previous knowledge, known or otherwise. I do however agree that it's not a good idea to "unofficially" launch your high powered (APCP) rockets. It could lead to really bad outcomes. Edited October 23, 2016 by stix
Arthur Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 The learning is good, the experimenting is good, the testing on a secure test stand is good, BUT firing a missile into busy airspace could leave you time to study at leisure. The first thing in research is usually a literature review to save the need to rediscover the work already done in any field, with home High Power rocketry, its possibly best to learn among a group of like minded people, to share the research cost and get group access to legitimate firing places.
douglas423 Posted October 23, 2016 Author Posted October 23, 2016 I never said i would unofficial launch it. I did some more research and i need to apply for a FAA waiver before i launch it. I like experimenting and trying new stuff, new fuel compositions and most rocket clubs won't allow you to use your own fuel i'm pretty sure. The chance of hitting an airplane with a high power rocket is extremely low. I will contact the FAA and do some more research on this.
Arthur Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 The chance may be low BUT killing 500 people would be really bad. Remember that the rocket goes up and comes down and has to land somewhere. 100,000ft is common for rockets, that's 20 miles up and 20 miles down again, with a recovery chute it could land anywhere within say 100 miles.
douglas423 Posted October 23, 2016 Author Posted October 23, 2016 I doubt my first high power one will go over 10,000 ft. But i am going to get a waiver and or clear it with my local ATC.
NeighborJ Posted October 24, 2016 Posted October 24, 2016 A few pointers on your rocket design. I can't think of any motor which uses an aluminum nozzle, the aluminum will erode too quick and will cause a host of performance issues. Sugar rockets use water putty and steel washers, APCP uses graphite. Most pyrotechnic motors use bentonite clay and various other ingredients depending on type of fuel. I also agree with what everyone here has said about joining a club, no-one here is saying you aren't capable or wants to take anything away from what you ve accomplished so far, that quest for instant gratification can lead to incredible disappointments and eventual loss of interest. I for one want as many interested and involved people to express their love for rockets as possible. It's just easier to stay away from legal issues with the guidance and support of a club. They can let you learn on your own while giving you a gentle nudge in the right direction all the while making a good responsible example for all who may try to curb our fun.
douglas423 Posted October 24, 2016 Author Posted October 24, 2016 Atleast after 4 test with with sugar fuel and sugar fuel using alunmium powder as one of the additive. I saw no visible signs of it changed the shape any bit. I will try machining my own graphite one in the future. I did have one issue with a small part of the wall of the rocket melting. Lighting some alunmium fuel and leaving it for a few hours without cooling it melted it. On the legality, I will fill out a form for the airspace.
TomasBrod Posted October 24, 2016 Posted October 24, 2016 Atleast after 4 test with with sugar fuel and sugar fuel using alunmium powder as one of the additive. I saw no visible signs of it changed the shape any bit.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4q3NPrKHEoA wideo of someone having similar idea.
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