Binder for making waterfall?

[Nubtub]

Hey guys, super basic question:

 

I'm trying to figure out what binder to use for making waterfalls that will dry the fastest.

 

I'm currently making some waterfalls for some photography props, and am trying to make them as quickly and simply as possible. I'm using a very simple mix of titanium flakes (a range of sizes) and black powder, and just need something simple to keep it all together when packed into paper tubes.

 

Currently I have a bunch of dextrin, which seems to be the main binder i see in a lot of waterfall formulas, but I haven't found too many sources on how exactly it's combined with the rest, or how much water to use. I tried mixing with water, but when I did it took a very long time to dry, however that might have been because i used way too much. I've heard of using alcohol, or a mix of alcohol and water with binders, but I'm having trouble figuring out if you can use alcohol with dextrin, or if that is only other types of binders.

 

Anyone have any input on this? Thanks!

[BlueComet24]

You can't use alcohol with dextrin. Any more than 25% (IIRC; could be even less) alcohol in water and the dextrin won't work at all. You can use alcohol with red gum and various other resins.

[NeighborJ]

I haven't made these yet but I believe they can be pressed in a tube with minimal water(2%) with dex and can be used immediately. Edited September 28, 2016 by NeighborJ

[OldMarine]

I haven't made these yet but I believe they can be pressed in a tube with minimal water(2%) with dex and can be used immediately.

I agree, I use about 2% water and just use my body weight on a dowel to press the comp in the tubes. I do hand ram a sawdust plug with watered down Elmer's in the base to give me something solid to attach to my cable.

[flying fish]

What kind of tubes are you using? Maybe thinner-walled tubes would help the water permeate out? We made a bunch of small ones (lance-tube sized) for a display and the tubes were rolled with thin walls out of light craft. The idea was to get the paper to burn away with the waterfall, so that you don't get distracting, glowing debris afterwards. We tamped the comp in lightly (it had to be lightly, otherwise our thin tubes would split) with about 8% water and dextrin was used as the binder. In a dehumidified drying box (in the summer) they were dry in a day. They worked great! Those were the perc/aluminum waterfalls, which you have to make sure are consolidated enough that they don't blow up on you!

Edited September 29, 2016 by flying fish

[NeighborJ]

When I say wet it with 2% water. I mean use a spray bottle and lightly must the comp then seal it in a baggie and shake so it mixes well. It should not feel wet and it does not affect the burn at such a small amount. Thin tubes are fine but they may be more distracting than the thick walled tubes as they drop pieces of burning cardboard in your waterfall. This is the same method I use for making rockets and drying was never a concern.

[Nubtub]

OK great, this is all really good to know! I've been using news paper rolled a couple times around. Probably used too much tape though. I'll try the mist and baggie method. Wasn't sure how to best mix so that sounds like a good idea.

 

 

Thanks for the info guys, I'll be trying this all tomorrow!

Edited September 29, 2016 by Nubtub

[Mumbles]

When dealing with small amounts of water, it can help to pass the composition through a screen to help distribute the water.

 

I'd lean more toward what Flying Fish recommended. Thin walls and somewhere between 6-10% moisture. I prefer the tube to burn away with the fall, but anything can work. The thinner the tube, the more water you'll need to be able to compress the comp. If I was using a thicker walled tube like for a fountain or rocket, I probably wouldn't bother with water at all.

[Seymour]

Petroleum jelly, or Oil, or Wax. they don't need to be activated, just compacted.