cutting TT stars

[Tim1877]

Just wondering how difficult it is to cut the charcoal based stars such as TT,also can you make these types of stars with parlon.

[NeighborJ]

Parlon TT will not be TT the parlon will prevent the star from dropping charcoal embers,If it even lights, as will red gum.

You can cut TT but only with a blade, no screen sliced they will crumble. Keep them small 1/4"- 1/2" and dry them for a couple weeks, they will light after one day and will be rock hard but the true TT effect doesn't seem to happen until it's dried completely.

[marks265]

Cutting TT stars are easy to do and a good one to tackle early on. Allow the comp to rest a bit after wetting and loafing before cutting. It allows the binder which is Soluble Glutinous Rice Starch (SGRS) to activate when used with water. Some people might use a small amount of alcohol to break the surface tension of the water which allows for faster wetting because there is so much charcoal. I usually sprinkle down a little prime on top before cutting to keep my knife cleaner. I have shot them without prime and they still light well. Try some you'll like 'em!

 

Making these stars with Parlon is really working backwards because Parlon is a donor of chlorine for color and/or possibly a binder. Neither of which has anything to do with the effect of a charcoal star. These types of ingredients make for a really nice cheaply made star.

[DavidF]

Tim, I cut my charcoal stars using a large Ziploc brand Freezer bag. I'm a hobbyist. I just finished cutting a bag of tiger willow. 1000 grams was a bit much for that formula. The stars are 1/2" to 9/16", fine for 6" shells. For smaller shells, use 2 bags instead. Or, a medium and large. I like to use hot (not boiling) water. For this last batch I used about 320 grams of water, and the batch was on the dry side. 10-15 grams more water would have been ideal. The bag acts as a small , one layer 'star box'. There is a thread here somewhere where I go on and on about it, but I don't know where. maybe somebody can link to it. I use SGRS too, like Mark does.

 

The thing I like about my method is that you can get your feet wet with minimal effort and cost. Once you get a feel for it, you can make larger batches with a star box.

[Tim1877]

Could you use dextrin to bind these stars instead of SGRS?

[NeighborJ]

The dextrin is a suitable replacement, I think the last batch I made was bound with dextrin. The effect was better with sgrs because the charcoal tail was more intense. Dextrin stars seemed to not break up as much into that classic tail. I ended up with large glowing cinders falling to the ground. Let's just say be ready to use the fire extinguisher just in case.

[Tim1877]

Thanks for all the info actually I was thinking the same thing about the 3" shells I think that is where I'm going to start just have to decide between paper or plastic.

[starxplor]

Thanks for all the info actually I was thinking the same thing about the 3" shells I think that is where I'm going to start just have to decide between paper or plastic.

 

Paper is by far the more often used material, but plastic has its place (note: I used plastic this summer, made a grand total of 2 shells)

 

The primary reasons I know of to use plastic include:

Easy to construct, no pasting.

Shorter construction time, no drying of pasted layers

Less likely to deform in shipping if shipping box is damaged (not an often occurrence)

Nice aesthetics, looks like a cartoon bomb

You don't worry about plastic bits raining down.

 

Basically, If you have the time and patience to paste, dry, and repeat, paper shells are probably the better bet. If, like me, you are doing all your building over the course of a few days at the site you will be shooting from, plastic shells will likely save time.

[Mumbles]

I'd also suggest going with paper. Plastic has it's uses, but is generally more of a stepping stone. In nearly every case I'm aware of any serious builder makes the transition to paper. They are more work, but the effect and results are worth it in my opinion. They are also more tuneable and ecologically friendly. Given the heavier usage of paper, there is a larger breadth of knowledge and experience to draw from as well.

[braddsn]

I am with Mumbles here. I shot some plastic when I first started, because I wanted to try everything, and test test test!! Plastic is fine, fast, and fun if you are not overly concerned about what the break looks like, and if you don't mind plastic littering your property. When a plastic shell breaks, it doesn't break evenly.. it breaks in large pieces and it's very difficult to get a symmetrical break. Paper on the other hand basically almost disintegrates, or breaks in many tiny pieces if the shell is boosted and pasted properly, leaving the stars inside able to travel in their respective directions. This is why the seemingly OLLLLDDDDD and time consuming way of pasting shells is still being used to this day. Just can't be beat. If you are in it for the long haul, learn how to paste!

[Tim1877]

Ok so where do I learn to paste I have read articles but they usually tell you to use this method or that method but I need to learn the details of pasting shells

[OldMarine]

The most recommended are Pyrotechnica IX & XI (there is no X) for the Fulcanelli articles.

The next is Bleser's Round Stars and Shells. I'm reading both again during my down time.

[dagabu]

+1, Pyrotechnica IX & XI, also known as the Fulcanelli Papers.

[starxplor]

Ok so where do I learn to paste I have read articles but they usually tell you to use this method or that method but I need to learn the details of pasting shells

 

There are also many good videos online, but be careful, there are also a crap tonne of horrible, dangerous, reckless videos out there.

I saw one a while back but didn't bookmark it that showed a pattern that can be used to avoid the bulging build-up that can happen from layers of tape.

[wildcherryxoxo]

The most recommended are Pyrotechnica IX & XI (there is no X) for the Fulcanelli articles.

The next is Bleser's Round Stars and Shells. I'm reading both again during my down time.

huh? why in the hell would they skip X? PTX contains Shimizus "Studies on microstars" and it is a gem!

[OldMarine]

I haven't seen 10 for sale or listed anywhere. I may have assumed incorrectly that it didn't exist.

I'll admit I thought It strange but my research turned up nothing.

The "full set" offered by Harry on SL didn't include that edition.

I've been robbed!

[wildcherryxoxo]

You truly have been, its a great issue.

[joeyz]

tim, tt is easy to make, easy to cut and one of my favs.

 

stick with milling composition 44 kno3, 44 charcoal, 6 sulfer, 6 dextrin and you wont go wrong on the traditional effect.

 

like someone else said, dont use parlon because it will/can reduce the effect. but then again, no one is sure what effect you longing after. if its traditional tt then save that precious parlon for more exotic type stars that absolutely require parlon. dextrin is made from corn starch and you can get anytime at any grocery store. baking corn starch in oven until golden brown makes you dextrin. IMO, i think dextrin is a better binder anyways in most comps that doesnt modify the effect, it keeps a low profile in the composition. the focus of this tt comp is that charcoal burn tail effect.

 

after you made your tiger tail comp, wet with water or 50/50 water alcohol, into a pizza dough, flatten the dough to desired thickness like a pizza on a large smooth cutting board, let semi dry, and cut/chop (with something long and thin) to sizes you want/need. i used a 12" painters guide that has a thin sheet metal blade. let the cut stars dry out before use.

 

if you want to turn those cut stars into round stars, set aside 1/4 cup of the same tiger tail dry mix before starting to wet the main batch into play doh, take your finished semi dry cut stars (allowing dextrin to cure) you made, toss them into roller with 1/4 cup powder tt and round them. no star roller? slide them into a large bowl, toss in that 1/4 cup of dry tt comp, cover bowl and gently start swirling it around for 5-10 minutes while watching tv. check it periodically, you can tell when the corners of the stars start rounding out and the stars arent falling apart. if all is good, close the top then swirl harder and faster to round them totally. in star roller or bowl method, the damp cut stars will absorb the dry comp and round them out at the same time from swirling around in a round container. a korean pyro friend taught me this in korea and it works great when you dont have a star roller. tiger tail mix is the only moon dust powder i keep on hand because of many uses. i can quickly makes stars and comets, prime cold stars, coat 2-4 mm of tiger tail on strobes, red gum stars, yankee flashes etc if i want to add effects to a star.

 

if you use parlon, it should take longer to dry, should be harder to evenly cut squares, and be ready to clean wipe the cutter frequently with damp paper towel because parlon makes the comp more stickier than dextrin.

Edited September 11, 2016 by joeyz

[starxplor]

I thought one of the points of parlon was the quicker drying with acetone vs water?

[joeyz]

not sure brother, i thought it takes longer to dry and was stickier and dense. its been years since i used that way. i think it would hurt the effect of tiger tail though. maybe if he didnt ball mill the comp and hand mixed in bowl for a spider tail might compensate effect if parlon is used. its been so long cant really remember the issues i had with parlon in the past. it might be ignition or effect. Edited September 11, 2016 by joeyz

[joeyz]

then again, neighborJ says it will work fine, just let them dry for weeks? LOL

if thats the case, then dextrin allows me to use the stars the next day, hahaha

[joeyz]

im with mumbles on the paper hemispheres over plastic.

 

especially if used for mortars. my reason has to do with the plastic 4" and 5" plastic shells i have laying around and do not use because they dont fit snug, frog hair space, in mortars. i was skeptish when i saw the large gap between shell and mortar tubes and proved right in the first few i shot were lower in altitude than commercial past shells. i had to either add just a bit more lift or wrap with masking tape (best solution) to close the radius gap between shell and tube to ensure proper size fit in tube. at least with pasting/gum taping you can check proper fit. or maybe the pyro site i bought the plastic shells were smaller than other manufacturers. be careful using plastic shells, ensure they are a perfect fit or you will get a undesired low burst because lift gas leak around ball shell causing lower compression. its like putting 2" shell into 3" mortar, wont go as high. thats a bit dramatic but new people will better get the idea of what im saying. you dont want the shell tight in the tube but you dont want it too loose either.

 

if your using plastic for rocket headers, disregard my comments above for it wont apply. but i use paper for everything, just better learning, no shrapnel and better for enviroment. i think im going to post my plastic shells up for sale, i dont use them.

Edited September 11, 2016 by joeyz

[starxplor]

Parlon is supposed to be horrible for cutting, it gets sticky and stringy if not done with some special process under a full moon after some chanting, heh.

 

Some comps include parlon but are not bound by it, and so might not have the speed of drying benefit, they use it as a chlorine donor only.

 

I have never heard of making TT stars with parlon. I made some star-plate pressed TT stars for my first shells this summer and used dextrin as the binder. They dried in an old outdoor bbq grill without problem in under a week.

 

Edit to respond to new posts:

 

I had to add a few layers of tape around the equator of the 4" plastic shells this summer to make sure they fit. The shell parts are still made to be pasted, they just don't technically 'need' it for compression for some sizes.

Edited September 11, 2016 by starxplor

[joeyz]

starxplor, thats pretty slick! you just solved a problem i have.

 

i have 6 outdoor ranch cats, everytime i lay pyro out to dry they think its food, catnip or litter box. i like the idea laying the cookie sheets in the grill to dry, now i can hide it from wind and animals.

 

i just gotta make sure the wife doesnt turn on the grill, hahahaha

Edited September 11, 2016 by joeyz

[starxplor]

I do suggest using a decommissioned grill, if you can. Just make sure it is still up on the stands, not just the barrel/clamshell on the ground. Usually half the vent holes are on the bottom and you want these open to provide airflow and not blocked by sitting on the ground.

 

Otherwise, maybe offer to be the one who gets the grill going any time it is needed. Not only are you more likely to remember to check, if something happens, you don't hurt your wife, and you look good for offering to always help out, heh.