Sweet Dream Stars

[joeyz]

Team,

 

I found some nice stars posted on youtube 5 years ago by pirotex *Sweet Dreams* Rocket.

 

He posted the formula:

 

55% sodium nitrate

25% magnalium (80 mesh)

10% sulfer

5% charcoal

5% dextrin

notes: mix in bowl with 45% alcohol

notes: roll or cut stars

notes: coat with 2-3 mm tiger tail comp

 

i got my chems in to make these 1/2" stars and my question is is this comp safe to mix it all in a bowls, add alcohol, make dough and cut stars. reason why i ask is because i never delt with sodium nitrate and dont know its dangers with magnalium and sulfer.

 

see phot below, the stars im trying te engineer.

[Seymour]

Alcohol won't activate the dextrin.

 

MgAl will in the end react with the nitrate and sulfur but not so fast that it ignites, they'll just stop burning.

 

How is Sodium nitrate for you?

I understand it depends both on purity and humidity, but it dissolves its self with water from the air here.

[joeyz]

thanks for the reply seymour. this is my first time using sodium nitrate so i dont know too much about it. i am trying to do those orange stars mentioned above. i guess i just treat sodium nitrate as i would potassium nitrate. i just wasnt sure of its power, like a perchlorate but im guessing nitrate is nitrate. when i make stars, i usually grind up the sulfer and the pottasium nitrate seperately, then filter everything into a bowl, then cover bowl and shake it for 5 minutes, then pour into zip lock bag, and water and start doughing it. then i flatten the zip lock on a butch board, square things off to proper 1/2" thickness and cut around bag. then i use a 1/2" screen, press lightly to make lines and then cut the stars while gum soft. toss back into bowl, toss in some prime meal or tiger tail powered and shake roll it again. then shove into my star roller and with some more meal and roll it until the corvers flatten out and forms the round stars. i repeat water and meal to get a good layer.

 

i was just worried about how safe is it to handle sodium nitrate cause i never used it before. i guess no diffefent from potassium nitrate. anytime i use metal in compositions i get concened about sensivity and risks.

 

seymour, should i just use water then alcohol based on what you said?

Edited August 25, 2016 by joeyz

[NeighborJ]

The weather here in PA is a lot different than Tx so the last time I used sodium nitrate was in the winter. What I did to mix it was to dissolve the dextrin in just enough water to dissolve it then added it to the rest of the formula. It is not wet enough to evenly distribute so I then added enough alcohol to bring it to the consistency I wanted. Worked great but I used it as soon as it was dry and I primed over top of a layer of dried nc. I used it in plastic shells as an extra measure to keep moisture away.

[rogeryermaw]

Relatively safe but your sodium nitrate is petty hygroscopic. You'll probably need to finish your stars in a drying box and use them soon as long term storage will be difficult unless kept in a sealed container with desiccant.

[joeyz]

seymour, i guess i only partially answered your question. even though this is my first playing with sodium nitrate, doing a sanity check on any new chemical formula, i cannot directly answer for it but logic tells me its still a nitrate class and i dont have humidy issues with my other nitrates (pottasium, barium, etc). i forgot to mention that usually after i screen filter all the incredients into a tub or bowl, i always spritz/dampen the mix with a spray bottle until there is no dust and becomes like a damp sand, then i toss in the alcohol to make it a pizza dough, flatten can cut my stars. i have had luck with this on basically any star compo with ot without dextrin. so to better you question, humidity is awesome for me in texas, never an issue. hey, by the way, the alcohol i use is that cheap 45% that i get at the dollar store.

[joeyz]

neighborJ, awesome, thats pretty much how i do it too for almost everything (dextrin or not), first water then add alcohol. as for humidity in texas, its a dream for a pyro guy, hehehe. only dessicant i use is the large metal can one for the gun safe to protect my guns from rusting from air conditioner in the house.

 

humidity has never been a problem for me here in texas. its so hot and dry here that i cant even store pvc pipe glue, silicon tubes, dry wall spackle, paint, wood puddy, super glue, or any other kind of common household thick liquids for any long period in the garage or anywhere else outsside the house. a few weeks later the products are dried out, hard as a rock and i have to run to the store for rebuy to fix any house projects lol

 

as for pyro, due to the texas heat and dry air, i have had awesome success in all my homemade stars of and kind, size and even with my ground strobes, large tails, comets and meteors and storage. all of my gum based veline stars are usually ready for use in 12-24 hrs, hard, dry, and light as lava rock. if a need stars that day, i can make in morning and the sun or heat shade will dry it out in a couple of hours. i am also lucky on cold stars that need a hot prime because its so dry here, usually a thin layer of meal dust does the trick. i never had any blind stars but then again, i always prime certain stars with simple bp meal, tiger tail or hotter prime as a guarantee light in case of moisture or if i decide to build something thats going to be using an extreme hard break (planning ahead).

 

i guess if i lived up north or florida id be pulling my hair out about humidity issues. but then again your not pulling your hair out storage issues of household items like i am doing. i love the texas sun and dry heat though and wouldnt trade ya. you can keep the rain, snow and cold lol

[joeyz]

roger, thanks mate!

 

anytime i deal with a new chemical, even though its a nitrate family, i am always trying to do a sanity check on the dangers, risk assessment, before mixing it with anything else. sodium nitrate is called sodium nitrate because its not pottassium nitrate and has different properties. i just wanted to find out how far i can handle/work with it, ie more or less dangerous than potassium nitrate or barium nitrate.

 

i always keep this internal danger threshold flag line in my head to ensure safety. this keeps me from hurting self, others or property. fireworks is always a danger but risks can be minimized by understanding what your working with and best business practices of working with it.

 

going to make a small sample test batch today, will post a vid of the orange star results. hopefully i can produce the one like pirotex did.

 

i in love with this sweet dream rocket & stars, totally awesome. imgotta make this lol

i assume hes using a core burner 70/20/10 bp fuel then going back and adding another dash of charcoal in his fuel or maybe even a 75/20/10 fuel.

Edited August 26, 2016 by joeyz

[Pirotex]

In this rocket I use "Sunrise Yellow" stars:

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/10498-sunrise-yellow/

Star size 8*8 mm, cylindrical + layer of Tiger Tail composition (3-4 mm)

[joeyz]

thank you pirotx, lovely rocket! I just made a small batch tonight, should be dry for tomorrow test.

 

by the way, what is your 1lb core burner rocket mixture on that rocket with the pretty streak tail? 70/20/10. looks like lots of charcoal. you have a real nice tail on that rocket.

 

By the way pirotex, love your rockets on youtube, very nice work!

Edited August 27, 2016 by joeyz

[Sparx88]

I make sunrise yellow stars with it and you do have to dry them with a small amount of heat and put them away in airtight bags inside airtight containers. They become hard to lite the longer you store them. I believe this to be at least somewhat true for most comps containing sodium nitrate.

[joeyz]

thanks sparx, this my first time using sodium nitrate and I made a test batch of these stars last night. i live in texas, no dryer needed, the heat and dry air is absorbing the moisture faster than sodium nitrate can hold, they are drying out fast, almost hard like rock now after 6 hours, halfway there.

 

i did notice right after i made them, they started going flat a little so i see what you mean. mainly my fault, didnt realize if too wet the sodium nitrate based stars start to sag with gravity. i saw how they seep moisture as well. i added more dry composition and rolled them around a bit to stable its round star form and the texas is air took over to prevent them going flat. looking great now. letting them finish drying completely out, will tiger tail coat them 5mm and let dry again. my next large batch will be much easier now that i learned what im playing with.

 

as a pyro guy, im pretty lucky to be in texas, i never have moisture issues. even my 1/4", 1/2" and even 1" gum stars dry out super fast within hours. i should probably rename my gum red stars to lava rock lol

Edited August 27, 2016 by joeyz

[joeyz]

did a small test of one star (12 hours later). it was easy to lght (meal primed) and burned evenly all the way through. i love the color and it was consistent burn but noticed that it strobed like my yankee flashers but faster, magnalium. that could be because i used 80-200 magnalium (was all i had) or the star not 100% dry. moving outside to texas sun to ensure inside is dry. will test again later. if dry and still produces a strobe effect, i might have get better magnalium and simply just use these as "sunrise yellow strobe" stars for something else. if so, not a loss, i only made 25 1/2" stars, small test batch. i always make small samples to test star compositions before going for a final mass batch to ensure correct effect. its like a DJ mixing music, gotta have the right beat. Edited August 27, 2016 by joeyz

[joeyz]

Did a small test on these stars and looks very nice. Looks just like the sun. But i notice some strobing and popping instead of a more even glow burn. i discovered my coffee grinder is worn and wasnt air floating the nitrate and sulfer correctly. Screening the comp through 100 mesh i discovered chunks of nitrate and sulfer. Time to get a new one and i be set.

 

[OldMarine]

I would both dry them longer and shoot some from a star gun or mine before altering anything. I don't care how dry and warm it is, it's not as hot as a drying box and anything not acetone bound should at least be dried a couple of days before testing. Anything hygroscopic should receive extra drying time in elevated heat.

Yeah, I learned it the hard way!

[joeyz]

I hear ya brother, my drying box is thousands of miles wide Edited September 3, 2016 by joeyz

[CrossOut]

Yep as old Maine said, test again.

 

 

I I wouldn't recommend drying in the sun. The sun can dry the outside of a star and end up driving moisture into the star slowing the drying process. Dry in the shade with gentle air flow. Texas summers are pretty hot. You can make a drying box out of a box fan and a couple house hold air filters. Works great on warm days.

 

As for the strobe effect, it might be caused from the mgal reacting with the sulfur and oxidizer. Using finer mgal should Fix that for sure. Try 200+ mgal and that strobe should go away.

 

If your stars are flattening out during the drying process then you are over wetting them. Let the comp dry out a little mite before cutting or pressing. If you are rolling the stars then add a little mite dry comp and let it roll for a few more minutes. Repeat till they don't pick up any more comp.

[joeyz]

thanks, appreciate the tips and will watch out for those indicators in next batch. all i could get was 80-200 mesh magnalium. i dry all my stars in the shade and never direct sun. i like to let them gradually dry out. i live on a plato so i always have a breeze. Edited September 4, 2016 by joeyz

[Pirotex]

joeyz, this composition make strobe effect with coarse magnalium. I use approximately 120 mesh magnalium.

Ofcourse other chemicals in composition must be very small

Edited September 10, 2016 by Pirotex

[Eric70]

joeyz,

 

Winter before last I pumped a batch of 3/8" Sunrise Yellow stars, I really like those stars. Easy to make and economical.

 

Made a 6" ball shell for one of my 6 lb BP coreburners. Here's a lousy video of it from a windy night last fall:

 

http://pyrotechnics.no-ip.org/files/6-LB%20BP%206-INCH%20SHELL.mp4

 

Give it a couple of minutes to load, sorry no youtube account.

 

Eric

[OldMarine]

thanks, appreciate the tips and will watch out for those indicators in next batch. all i could get was 80-200 mesh magnalium. i dry all my stars in the shade and never direct sun. i like to let them gradually dry out. i live on a plato so i always have a breeze.

Hey Joey, I don't know if you've seen August's posts on the MgAl thread but he sells classified MgAl. It is the bomb!

[joeyz]

oooo thanks! going to look into this right away.

[OldMarine]

Here's the thread:

http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/11877-making-magnalium/page-4

[FlaMtnBkr]

I saw you mention a bowl that you mix in. Just be careful if it's a metal bowl that there is no chance sun can shine on it. There have been multiple instances of fires because the concave surface concentrates the sun and can quickly get hot enough to light.

 

I had just cleaned a big stainless bowl and left it outside to dry. There was partial shade and there was a pretty even layer of thin clouds out. I walked by a half hour later and a wisp of what looked like smoke caught my eye. I looked down and a leaf had landed in the bowl and had a round spot missing surrounded by ash and a glowing red leaf that was smoldering. If I moved the leaf it started burning the new spot in about 30 seconds and it wasn't even nearly as sunny as it can get here.

 

Just a warning that can easily happen that you don't hear about often. In fact, I will go make a post in the safety section.

 

Also, sodium nitrate is hygroscopic and will turn mushy if the humidity is high enough. It may not be a problem now but I wouldn't plan on keeping them around long. A rainy weekend might spoil your hard work. I've had hygroscopic chemicals turn to slush even when stored in 5-6 zip lock bags. You either need to get a container you know is airtight or figure out some type of solution if you have high humidity. I've found putting a dried chemical in a deep freezer will keep it dry when other things won't. The refrigeration process pulls humidity out of the air and is basically how freeze drying works. Just in case anyone needs a quick fix.