AzoMittle Posted August 5, 2016 Posted August 5, 2016 Is there a "best" chlorine donor for barium nitrate? Is there any difference beyond the chlorine amount? I tried dechlorane/magnalium last year and ended up with a washed out apple green. I really wish I understood the chemistry better.....
AzoMittle Posted August 5, 2016 Author Posted August 5, 2016 I've made barium chlorate stars before but i don't enjoy working with chlorates. I'm also curious about barium carbonate, does it need a different donor or different amount?
Carbon796 Posted August 6, 2016 Posted August 6, 2016 (edited) What percentage of dechlorane did you use ? Percentages above about 5% of dechlorane will whiten the flame envelope. I generally use parlon,saran or a blend of each. Edited August 6, 2016 by Carbon796
taiwanluthiers Posted August 11, 2016 Posted August 11, 2016 Parlon or chlorowax seems to work best with this. It produces very deep greens.
taiwanluthiers Posted August 12, 2016 Posted August 12, 2016 Yea one caveat is you must use metal fuel, get the flame as hot as possible to get good greens. There are organic fueled greens but they all use barium chlorate as oxidizer. Using magnesium (rather than magnalium) results in better green too.
Seymour Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 The best chlorine donor for Barium nitrate in my experience is Ammonium perchlorate thought I feel like it is cheating. All colours are good with AP. My rules for good barium nitrate greens is that they need a high temperature and don't have that much oxygen compared to KClO4. Lots of chlorine is good too. To be more specific, I recommend star mixes with 10-15% MgAl and 10-15% chlorine donor. Ideally less than 20% KClO4, and the less carbon the better, to an extent. In some formulas there is enough carbon in the chlorine donor (usually parlon) and binder (usually dextrin) so often no red gum or phenolic resin is needed. The quality of the MgAl has a major impact in how cleanly it burns, as does Barium nitrate particle size and how well it is mixed. You don't get much oxygen here as I've already stated, so you don't want to loose any because the oxidiser was not fine enough or mixed well enough to fully decompose. I had decent success just using 62% Barium nitrate, 14% MgAl, 14% Parlon, 6% Sulfur and 4% Dextrin. Sulfur has about half the fuel value as most carbon rich fuels and it can also be an oxidiser with MgAl, so my theory was that it was less demanding on the fuel/oxygen balance. 1
taiwanluthiers Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 Sounds like you just described Kyle's Emerald Green formula which is actually a very good formula. I modified it to eliminate the perchlorate and increased the percentage of the barium nitrate to compensate and it made no difference at all, except for some people where perchlorate is expensive it saves a lot of money.
Mumbles Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 When in conjunction with perc the sulfur actually helps release some extra chlorine from the perchlorate. Perc helps to speed up the burn rate a touch, and keep the stars burning as well.
AzoMittle Posted August 13, 2016 Author Posted August 13, 2016 When in conjunction with perc the sulfur actually helps release some extra chlorine from the perchlorate. Perc helps to speed up the burn rate a touch, and keep the stars burning as well.How does that work? Im out of town right now and on mobile so I'll look at the majority of replies later.
Mumbles Posted August 13, 2016 Posted August 13, 2016 The chlorine thing I've read forms potassium sulfide or sulfate instead of potassium chloride which releases that chlorine into the flame. Potassium chlorate on the other hand releases some on it's own. As for the burn rate or retained ignition, possible just a more potent oxidizer or gives up it's oxygen a little easier. 1
AzoMittle Posted August 15, 2016 Author Posted August 15, 2016 (edited) What percentage of dechlorane did you use ? Percentages above about 5% of dechlorane will whiten the flame envelope. I generally use parlon,saran or a blend of each.Oh, well that probably explains it.... good to know. I used the following, it is a modified version of emerald green actually. 51...Barium Nitrate15...Dechlorane12...Magnalium (-325)08...Potassium Perchlorate05...Sulfur05...Lampblack02...Red Gum01...Potassium Dichromate+04...SGRS Hardt #5 best green I hav seen with Bano3.For anyone who finds this thread later on, here is the referenced formula: Barium nitrate 56Red gum 7Magnalium (-200 mesh) 17PVC 15Dextrin 5 Sounds like you just described Kyle's Emerald Green formula which is actually a very good formula. I modified it to eliminate the perchlorate and increased the percentage of the barium nitrate to compensate and it made no difference at all, except for some people where perchlorate is expensive it saves a lot of money. 47.62% 50 Barium Nitrate17.14% 18 Parlon11.43% 12 Magnalium (granular, -325 mesh)07.62% 08 Potassium Perchlorate04.76% 05 Charcoal (Airfloat)04.76% 05 Sulfur04.76% 05 Dextrin01.90% 02 Red Gum Edited August 15, 2016 by AzoMittle
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