joeyz Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 hi, im trying to make whistle mix fuel for my 1lb rockets and need to know how to make it easy and safest as possible to press into rockets. i found a couple of youtube videos but seems sketchy to me, not a trusted method or source. thanks for your feedback. -joe
OldMarine Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) This video has been recommended by many here and on FW as the best, most reliable tutorial on making whistle mix. https://youtu.be/yzHIDcpg3g0 Edited July 30, 2016 by OldMarine
dagabu Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 The only difference with my whistle making is the leather gloves and face shield. The baggie method is a really solid method IMHO.
ddewees Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 Follow these instructions, and you'll be golden. It's the best whistle formula to start with in my opinion. Make sure you use standard black powder tooling as well. https://www.dropbox.com/s/og5v9jhmw8136cl/whistlefuel.pdf?dl=0
DavidF Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 FWIW, I would like to mention a couple of safety concerns that are easily resolved. In the video, the whistle mix is being forced through a steel screen by rubbing with a steel spoon. This is a bad practice. A wooden spoon or a nitrile-gloved hand would be much safer. Some might say that the whistle won't ignite because it is wet with solvent. I would rather err on the side of safety. In Ben Smith's tutorial, the dangerous practice is to mix all the ingredients dry in a plastic bag. As long as there is no static electricity, it won't blow up in your face. To easily make it more safe (pronounced 'less dangerous'), all that needs to be done is to mix the solvent with the other ingredients in the bag before the oxidizer is added- as shown in the video by Dan Thames. Others have had safety concerns with the way I make my whistle mix too, so I won't share my method here. Since the OP has had no experience with whistle, it would be good to know what he is up against. Here is what happens if a spark ignites 500 grams of loose whistle mix: http://www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/extra/500gramwhistleselfconfinetest2.wmv Out of an abundance of respect for whistle mix, I personally choose to store it in paper sacks, not plastic bags. IMO, the most dangerous bags are the ones where you can hear the clicks of the Ziploc. I have seen whistle mix dust in the bag LEAP towards the closure while 'zipping' the bag shut. That was the last time I did that! I don't mean to be a party pooper but we should always be looking to reduce risk in this inherently dangerous hobby.
ddewees Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) The problem with adding the oxidizer after, is the difficultly with getting it fully incorporated. Edited July 30, 2016 by ddewees
ddewees Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 I removed my static remark ... Not something to ignore, no matter how unlikely it may be.
DavidF Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 OK, fair enough. How about mixing the powders through the screen, which would work better than mixing in the bag, anyhow? The well-mixed blend could then be moistened with the solvent/phlegmatizer in the bag. 1
mikeee Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 I like the baggie method and usually use a plastic or wood kitchen utensil to rub the fuel mix through the screen.Starting with fine mesh chemicals speeds the process and makes for a better fuel mix.
ddewees Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 OK, fair enough. How about mixing the powders through the screen, which would work better than mixing in the bag, anyhow? The well-mixed blend could then be moistened with the solvent/phlegmatizer in the bag.I like that. Sounds like a winning combination.
OldMarine Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) I'm almost ready to try my hand at whistle mix so I hope you guys can reach a safe consensus! An aside: I've been buying these for home use since I went to cooking school in the 80s and now find them indispensable in pyro for mixing and whatnot. They're cheap, durable and both re-usable and disposable. http://www.restaurantware.com/small-bamboo-spatula-100-count-box/ Edited July 30, 2016 by OldMarine
ddewees Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 It's not really necessary... Just use a heavy duty glove and a 16-20 mesh screen. Anything smaller and you'll just get annoyed. It a very easy process and can even be enjoyable, if you use a solvent you don't mind. I really like the "1/3 cup per 500 gram" ratio... Not too wet, and is ready to be screened/riced right away. Make a large (stainless steel) screen box... 18x24 is just about perfect. http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o588/SaltLakeAreaPyros/screen_zpssfs1qqoa.png
joeyz Posted July 30, 2016 Author Posted July 30, 2016 thanks team! oldmarine, thanks for confirming that video on youtube to be credible. thanks dwee for the other source. thanks david for the safety notes on that youtube video. i caught all those red flags too....steel bowls, steel spoon, zip lock bag, mixin dry chems (oxidizer and fuel). i may not know how to make whistle mix but as a pyro guy i sure saw/caught some practices that i would never use which led me to question the integrity of that video, a hoax. there is much trash on youtube where people make videos as a joke (faking the ingredients) that would be fatal to any youngster or adult to attempt with true chemicals. one wrong/misled step can be boom, your dead. one of the red flags that still sticks in my mind is the colour of the finished mix. isnt the mixture suppose to pink/reddish? i guess since you say the vid is credible, than this is another way of making whistle, none pink signature.
OldMarine Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 (edited) The copper oxychloride turns it bluish green. Whistle made with red iron oxide is pinkish. I still don't understand the catalyst thing but I'm still studying. Edited July 30, 2016 by OldMarine
joeyz Posted July 30, 2016 Author Posted July 30, 2016 yeah, great catch, i just caught that too reviewing the videos again. agree, the different oxides/coloration signatures. i got red iron oxide on hand but told alexa to add the copper oxy to my shoping list and find me that and other cheape chemicals on amazon lol in curiosity...maybe the guy is using copper oxy oppose to red oxide for key/important reasons....maybe stability, best mix/bonding, safer handling, mid term storage, louder whistle, reliable sound, etc. he doesnt explain that part. or maybe it doesnt matter at all and different oxy substitute can be used but doubt that, each chemical from our wonderful universe has their unique properties and hazards. i usually get my chem products from pyrochemsource.com unless i run into a better opportunity/find. which chem source do you guys use? or can i ask that question as pyro professionals.
mikeee Posted July 30, 2016 Posted July 30, 2016 I'm almost ready to try my hand at whistle mix so I hope you guys can reach a safe consensus! An aside: I've been buying these for home use since I went to cooking school in the 80s and now find them indispensable in pyro for mixing and whatnot. They're cheap, durable and both re-usable and disposable. http://www.restaurantware.com/small-bamboo-spatula-100-count-box/Patrick, Those tools look perfect for processing comps through a screen!
gdeputy Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 What do you think about the skylighter method? http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/how-to-make/whistle-mix.asp
joeyz Posted July 31, 2016 Author Posted July 31, 2016 wouldnt work for me so well, with kids and dogs running around the hot water and fire would be an issue. being in texas extreme dry heat it would be sure to dry the composition quickly without the hot water steps. i have seen members in our association make whistle mix in just a couple hours and its ready to press because of the dry heat. i can see this as a great solution in the northern regions where humidity and moisture is a problem and your trying to dry the comp. as for the formula and steps i dont know if its better or worse for i have no experience in whistle mix and will let the experts chime in on that. all i could say is that its pretty cool to have another option to accomplish what you need.
joeyz Posted July 31, 2016 Author Posted July 31, 2016 ddewees, thanks for that whistle mix pdf. i reviewed and definately like that professional procedure and safety practice and going to roll with that one. i noticed the portions/ratios of the chemicals differ from the other whistle mix on youtube. no clue which one is best until i try both in future. for now, safety is the most important step.
ddewees Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 That formula is very forgiving and considered mild on a "hot" scale. But works really well on black powder tooling. It has exceptional sound too, if your perchlorate is of decent quality. http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o588/SaltLakeAreaPyros/20150503_171948_zpsyltx1wtb.jpg
ddewees Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 One thing I should mention though, making whistle rockets is a pain in the ass. You'll find yourself working harder to remove the drifts (especially if you use bp tooling), and you constantly have to clean the drifts after each increment. The comp will build up on the face of the tooling and inside the cavity too. It's like pure ecstacy when you finally get to the solid ram. I used to use a wooden BBQ scure to clean out the inside, but I've heard drill bits of the proper size can work even better. Just don't go crazy on the pressure with the nozzle forming drift, otherwise you'll never get it out.
mikeee Posted July 31, 2016 Posted July 31, 2016 A highly polished spindle and release agent helps in removal of the motor from the tooling.Start small and progress to the larger projects.Bigger = more surface area = more friction = bigger headache = more throwing of wrenches = more creative vocabulary
joeyz Posted July 31, 2016 Author Posted July 31, 2016 Great info! My german brother inlaw is a machinist and advised me that polishing is key to keep anything from sticking to metals and recommends taking fine steel wool to keep it polished.
joeyz Posted July 31, 2016 Author Posted July 31, 2016 Team, trying to research difference between the fuel effects of whistle mix copper oxy vs iron oxide. Came across this youtube test. How valid is test im not sure but sonething to talk about.
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