NC laqcuer

[rogeryermaw]

IME dragon egg tuning generally involves manipulation of the magnalium mesh sizes. All of the odd behaviors I observed when I was experimenting with them involved the metal.

[NtzPrinter]

Now that you mention it roger... I do believe I may have used a slightly finer Magnalium powder than the first batch. All I know is this stuff went up like something crazy I would have built 35 years ago! I'll have to check my notes.

 

Thanks for the input.

Edited September 11, 2017 by NtzPrinter

[lloyd]

You didn't deal with the "pyrotechnic value" of the various types. Guitar lacquer is FAR from "...a good product for all pyrotechnic purposes..". Furniture-quality lacquers serve only as binders, and will ruinously inhibit some pyrotechnic reactions.

 

In fact, some formulae require a high-nitration lacquer as an important component -- they won't function properly in its absence. And some formulae work better with double-base material than they do with single-base.

 

I live in Florida. I have 10-year-old samples of crackle made with double-base powder (Green Dot) that have been stored in an unconditioned magazine where temperatures frequently rise to over 110F. There has been NO noticeable deterioration of the material. Further, that crackle is bound only by the nitrocellulose lacquer, and it's hard as stone -- not 'weakly bound', at all!

 

Presuming NC lacquer was the suitable binder, what have you made for which double-base lacquer did not serve adequately? I've made all sorts of commercial products with it, with perfect success and perfect longevity/shelf-life.

 

There are shotshells out there approaching half-a-century old that were loaded with Red/Green/Blue "Dot" powders, and still function properly with no sign of age-related degradation. Commercial NC shooting powders contain a laundry list of stabilizers and protectants against decomposition. In my experience they are MORE stable than furniture lacquers.

 

I might just add that about 95% of our products were professional "close-proximity" goods for indoor use or use VERY close to talent and audiences. Any sort of failure is vastly more-dangerous in those sorts of venues, so our products had to be extremely reliable. We used - actually, and truly - tons of Green Dot over the more than a decade of my designing and making effects for those venues -- everything from colored flame projectors to 'lightning comets' (with burn-times around one or two tenths of a second), to the binders for indoor stars. We never had any decomposition or degradation problems with the material. We also used it in the 'finish prime' for all of our comet effects -- as the binder for the prime.

 

LLoyd

Edited April 5, 2018 by lloyd

[NeighborJ]

I tend to agree with you Lloyd, on every thing except NC being a great binder. I've noticed that it is a great binder but only if it is used when it is first made. It makes a rather poor binder if it has been sitting around for a week or two dissolved in acetone. It still functions but those stars made with it are crumbley.

[lloyd]

I agree, Neighbor. But I have always recommended only mixing what you need for the job (in every post I've made about how it behaves when 'kept). I never keep it.

 

Lloyd

[Arthur]

Each time you want to use it, review it's intended use. Guitar lacquer is fine as a closing sealant, the dot powders are good for ingredients that participate in the reaction. The dot powders have a full chemical stabiliser package inside so they will certainly have better life.

[lloyd]

Please explain, then, how we have NC-bound crackle (with 'dot' powder) that has held up for more than a decade in HOT Florida magazines, with NO loss of performance.

 

If it degraded as quickly as you seem to imply, it would hardly last a Summer in Florida magazines!

 

Lloyd

[lloyd]

Ord,

That's fascinating. Thank you. We 'selected' the particular NC powder (Green Dot) based upon criteria including loudness and timing consistency.

 

It seems every variable you change in crackle affects one or the other of those. Our intent was to create a crackle that was 'adequately' loud, and the grains of which would all explode at the same instant (well... close <grin>) when all ignited at the same time.

 

We primed them with simple 'rough powder', nothing else. However (and this might be a clue), we used potassium dichromate solution for the 'priming water', rather than straight H2O. That seemed to improve the timing consistency, and might be responsible for their long life in storage.

 

Lloyd

[lloyd]

Thanks, Ord. I do not know any specific chemical mechanism that would allow the dichromate to directly protect the NC. But it's occurred to me more than once that part of the decay process might involve an interaction between the NC and the slowly-deteriorating Mg/Al.

 

If that's the case, then by preventing that metal decomposition reaction, we might be somehow defending the NC, also.

 

Now... what little I have has been kept scrupulously dry, but I've got a couple of 10-year-old samples of crackle I made (pre-primed) which continue to work like they day they were made. Sadly, as I've moved from production to research, I make few fireworks these days, except for small-run samples of new products. I haven't made any crackle in over two years! (ACK! I love crackle, too!)

 

But I'll make a note (right now) to try an alcohol-solvated prime next time I do, and see if I notice any change in performance or long-term stability.

 

Lloyd

Edited June 4, 2018 by lloyd

[hollon]

I know I'm responding to a somewhat old topic, but does anyone here actually make their own nitrocellulose? It's not especially dangerous as long as you know how to safely handle strong acids and use an ice bath or similar to keep the temperature of the reaction low. I was thinking of maybe making some myself eventually and seeing what other applications I can use NC for, lacquer and otherwise. Nitric and Sulfuric acid aren't particularly hard to obtain (can buy from Grainger) but if you're the DIY type (as I imagine most of us are) and have an interest in chemistry and a distillation apparatus ( I know, I know, not many of us including myself have one laying around) you can make the acids or purify store bought ones fairly easily/cheaply. Just me thinking aloud.

[Mumbles]

I will say, scale up of chemical processes is more difficult than most people realize. Making 10g is no problem. Making 100 or 1000g is an entirely different ball game.

[lloyd]

Hollon,

 

Mumbles is right about scaling!

 

In the 1960s, I often made theatrical flash paper. I had several friends who were professional magicians, including the late, famous Burling ("Volta") Hull. They all much-appreciated being able to obtain flash paper at a fraction of the cost of it through theatrical suppliers. As an aside, Mr. Hull wrote "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Stage Magic", of which I was given a pre-publication copy. I still have it.

 

I will not say the performer's name for fear of litigation, but there is a VERY famous modern-day magician whom everyone knows. He directly purloined one of the major effects of Mr. Hull's without compensating him or his estate for the use of it. I know, because I attended one of his shows, and politely confronted him afterwards with the name "Volta Hull". He had me ejected from the building!

 

But... back to flash paper!

 

Mine had a fairly short 'shelf life' (weeks, not years). The basic process of nitrating cotton or wood fibers is simple, but correct neutralization of the finished product, not so much. It's not terribly expensive in terms of chemicals, but very time-consuming, often requiring extended-time boiling in one or more neutralization/stabilization baths.

 

Unless you're comfortable with all that extra time-consuming work, the potential for the resultant NC to self-destruct (perhaps even catching fire), and the dangers of the nitration process itself, then commercial shooting powder is significantly less-expensive and stable than anything you can make yourself.

 

Lloyd

Edited August 9, 2018 by lloyd

[hollon]

Lloyd,

 

The neutralization process isn't that bad. My friend simply used running water until ph test strips came back mostly neutral. You can also use a sodium bicarbonate solution if you like but I've read (in other forums, so not necessarily reliable) that it can degrade the NC somewhat.

 

As for storage, if you keep it under water and dry when needed, it really poses no risks unless you were to stick a detonator in it (they use to use it in naval mines because of this property). I'm not sure how long it would take for it to degrade significantly in water though, but I would imagine it would be slow? Don't really know.

 

You're definitely correct that for the average person, getting it out of a single based powder is way easier and probably more economical. You can probably use a double base too, but then you're also getting nitroglycerin, though probably not at worrisome amounts.

 

I guess chemistry has always been an interest of mine and I enjoy making things, almost anything, in general.

 

On a side note, has anyone ever used NC for things other than lacquer? Like maybe a salute or a burst charge/burst charge booster? Probably is unnecessary but I feel like NC could probably be put to some sort of novel use if one was to experiment enough. I'm just starting out but when I have more time/money/chemicals I will probably try out a few things and if I find anything interesting I will report back for others use

[pyrojig]

I still would recommend chilling a nitration anyways , but thank you for that important info. Ill have to try that approach . I personally would like to get some highly nitrated NC for some proof of concept tests eventually .