making magnalium

[memo]

i want to make some magnalium, i have about 4 lbs of magnesium turnings. i have read somewhere that turnings could not be used. why is that ? i have never made magnalium before. so some hints and tips would be great. i can't buy it here or have it shipped.

 

memo

Edited July 27, 2016 by memo

[dagabu]

They almost always burn off before melting. I tried to flood the aluminum with charcoal and dump the chips in but I lost most of it anyway. Good luck!

[memo]

dag what do you use for your magnesium sourse , bike parts , vw parts ?

[mikeee]

I wonder if you could press the magnesium shavings into a semi solid slug which would reduce the amount of air in all of the shavings.

I would assume the air space in the shavings allows the shavings to heat up and burn quickly, a solid slug of metal might melt before it burns off.

[OldMarine]

Try melting the aluminum first and adding the magnesium. Add a layer of charcoal to keep the air out. I dunno but I can't see another way without sintering the Mg somehow.

[memo]

yes i have had all those thoughts on how to get the maganesium into the crucible and be melted, pouring the molten al over the hot magnesium cover and hope for the best. I think pressing the mag shavings would be the best. or just fuck the shavings and go to tranny cases or moto blocks, it is dirtier but works.

[memo]

Patrick had to look up sintering on google, I don't have the compressing power to sinter the mag, my thoughts were to press a puck and then add that to the melted al and cover. any other ideas???

[OldMarine]

It shouldn't ignite if you add the Mg through a layer of charcoal. Can you bathe the mix in inert gas (argon, nitrogen etc..) as you add the Mg?

Sorry, haven't played with reactive metals much.

Edited July 28, 2016 by OldMarine

[memo]

es , that is they way it should be done,,,,,,,,,,, there are always short cuts that work well, that is what i am looking for..... maybe i need to look to the ruskies, the seem to have a program that works

Edited July 28, 2016 by memo

[dagabu]

I wonder if you could press the magnesium shavings into a semi solid slug which would reduce the amount of air in all of the shavings.

I would assume the air space in the shavings allows the shavings to heat up and burn quickly, a solid slug of metal might melt before it burns off.

 

Yes but not chips, it just falls apart, curls? Works very well but you still get loss. Is August here? He is the man to ask.

 

Try melting the aluminum first and adding the magnesium. Add a layer of charcoal to keep the air out. I dunno but I can't see another way without sintering the Mg somehow.

 

Yup, that was my suggestion a few replies up.

[dagabu]

yes i have had all those thoughts on how to get the maganesium into the crucible and be melted, pouring the molten al over the hot magnesium cover and hope for the best. I think pressing the mag shavings would be the best. or just fuck the shavings and go to tranny cases or moto blocks, it is dirtier but works.

 

Be wearing thick leather all over your body before you try that! The gas that is made will blow all the Al right out!

 

I got my Mag from turnings, big bales weighed almost nothing, not worth my time. No modern casings or blocks are Mag around here, just a FORD truck support bracket. All the junk yards around here have been picked through.

[OldMarine]

Everything I just searched/read says to shove the mg turnings through a charcoal layer into the Al with a wooden dowel. Quick immersion is stressed.

How large is your crucible?

[WSM]

It shouldn't ignite if you add the Mg through a layer of charcoal. Can you bathe the mix in inert gas (argon, nitrogen(?) etc..) as you add the Mg?

Sorry, haven't played with reactive metals much.

 

A slow argon purge of the crucible as it's heating was my first thought (many years ago), and I'm still leaning that way. Nitrogen and oxygen both react with molten magnesium and aluminum. In fact, aluminum nitride combines with ANY moisture (even atmospheric moisture) to form ammonia.

 

My first magnalium experiment (iron crucible in a small kiln) failed and the material left in the crucible hissed and smelled strongly of ammonia when it was cooled with water (and the reaction is exothermic, if I'm correct).

 

I suspect the water quenched magnalium making technique (popcorn MgAl?) removes any aluminum or magnesium nitrides formed as it's quenched.

 

WSM

Edited July 28, 2016 by WSM

[MrB]

 

I got my Mag from turnings, big bales weighed almost nothing, not worth my time. No modern casings or blocks are Mag around here, just a FORD truck support bracket. All the junk yards around here have been picked through.

 

Check european car crap. Gearboxes and other transmission parts, as well as consols for the instrumentation is sometimes made from useful magnesium - aluminum alloys. Mercedes is a good brand to look for, supposedly. They introduced magnesium in their 7G-tronic transmission, as a "world first" in 2003. Not sure if you got much scraps for these cars "over there", most of you drive that junk that goes for "modern cars" made in USA. Things that go "clunk" when you try o go around a corner at speed, and such. ;- p

Nah. I'm sure they are fine cars to. Just teasing. And i'm somewhat certain US makers use magnesium in parts as well, just a matter of finding it.

B!

[chuckufarley]

You could always try your local scrap metal yard. I drive for one here and you would be surprised at the odd things the get there. I get first crack on any magnesium turnings that come into the yard.

 

I'm sure if you talked to them and told them what your interested in they would let you know if some cases came in, and would hold them for you.

Edited July 29, 2016 by chuckufarley

[WSM]

You could always try your local scrap metal yard. I drive for one here and you would be surprised at the odd things the get there. I get first crack on any magnesium turnings that come into the yard.

I'm sure if you talked to them and told them what your interested in they would let you know if some cases came in, and would hold them for you.

 

If you're hunting scrap yards for magnesium, take a small dropper bottle of clear vinegar with you. If you find some light metal, scrape a tiny clean spot with your pocket knife and put a drop of vinegar on the spot. Magnesium will bubble (hydrogen) and aluminum won't.

 

WSM

Edited July 29, 2016 by WSM

[memo]

thank you WSM , that is great to know. i have heard many motor cycles have magnesium engine, tranny parts casings

 

memo

Edited July 29, 2016 by memo

[memo]

Chuck, thanks for the offer, the cost of shipping to central America would make that not possible.

 

memo

[NeighborJ]

I haven't made magnalium let alone smelted magnesium but I'm sure the chips could be electroplated onto the aluminum before smelting. Research would need to be done as to what voltage and what liquid bath is necessary but it should increase the yield.

[WSM]

I haven't made magnalium let alone smelted magnesium but I'm sure the chips could be electroplated onto the aluminum before smelting. Research would need to be done as to what voltage and what liquid bath is necessary but it should increase the yield.

 

I haven't yet either, but most reports I've seen on the subject suggest melting the aluminum first and then adding the magnesium chunks to the aluminum melt. Many people have mentioned that trying to add magnesium turnings fails (much of it burning off rather than going into the melt) but broken magnesium castings or cut magnesium bars or plate works well to make magnalium.

 

I believe the weights of aluminum and magnesium parts should be roughly equal to get a 50:50 mixture. Also, since magnalium isn't a true alloy, but an intermetallic mix, stirring the melt of aluminum and magnesium before cooling is very helpful to the process.

 

If and when I start making magnalium, I believe the best way to store it is as ingots; and only breaking them down to usable sizes within a year of using it, so as to keep it "fresh", and minimize degradation of the metal powders. This only works because magnalium is friable and has a structural integrity similar to window glass.

 

Again, since I haven't done this yet, what I'm saying is only my opinion and educated guesswork. If you're an experienced magnalium maker, feel free to add corrections and constructive criticism. Thanks.

 

WSM

Edited July 30, 2016 by WSM

[memo]

WSM that is what i have read also. what I don't know about is ball milling the magnalium. will lead balls in a rebel mill jar work, being rubber lined soften the impact to much ?

 

memo

[WSM]

More germane to the subject, has anyone figured out an effective method of converting (smelting) magnesium turnings into a solid mass that can be used to make magnalium from?

 

Many of us have or have access to magnesium turnings, with no effective practical way to use them. Some have suggested milling them to powder, but that seems too dangerous without an expensive setup to do it safely.

 

I'm open to discussion on the matter...

 

WSM

[OldMarine]

This is an interesting paper on lower temp Magnesium chip recycling: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269407851_Re-Melting_of_Magnesium_Chips

I wonder if the aluminum could be added to the Mg after melting rather than the usual reverse process?

[WSM]

WSM that is what i have read also. what I don't know about is ball milling the magnalium. will lead balls in a rebel mill jar work, being rubber lined soften the impact to much ?

memo

 

Hi memo,

 

With something like a friable metal, I think a better approach to milling it is to carefully break the larger pieces with a hammer to a manageable size and then mill it down to a usable mesh size. Some have suggested something like a tall mortar and pestle made of pipe and pipe caps, to pound the breakable metal to powder and sift the various mesh sizes for sorting.

 

I don't know. Some have suggested chopping pieces in a blender, but I don't like the idea; especially since some who've tried it said they had seen sparks during the operation. I think if it got too fine and sparks happened, a fuel-air explosion could be a possibility (not a happy prospect). It might be possible in a blender operation if in a liquid medium (water?) to exclude air. This should be studied further till we come up with the best option.

 

WSM

Edited July 31, 2016 by WSM

[memo]

patrick if you run into a book melting magnesium chips for dummies let me know.......