What do the bigdogs use for lift?

[WindowLicka]

I was watching some damn youtube videos and came across this worlds largest shell video, which they had to use a crane to put in the morter the size of the well in that movie the ring. Anyways, its a big ass shell and so I gots to wondering what did those guys use for a lifting charge to put that sucker up there.

 

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKx9lEa1jdQ

 

Then I got to wondering what the people here on the forum were using for lifting little shells? Then what about bigger shells?

I was doing a lot of wondering I suppose. So I read a few threads on lift charges and ran into different terms like H3 and benzolift. Then I read that benzolift is only for smaller shells and H3....well, I didn't really see too much on H3. To the point that I still don't know what it stands for only it's some powder that can be used to lift shells.

 

What I really was wanting to see was what the people putting shells in the air are using and stand by as their go to powder for putting sparks skyward? Is it good ol' BP made and milled right? or something else?

 

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZPwtAKqjtk

 

I added this just as a reference to the lack of sound when the lift charges go off, is that BP?

Input?

Edited July 18, 2016 by WindowLicka

[Merlin]

Benzolift is basically diluted whistle- diluted with BP. It not like flash. I don't know about the shell to which you refer but to my knowledge large shells are lifted with BP

[Arthur]

The larger the shell, the slower the lift. For the really big shells it's probably 5 - 10mm lumps of pressed BP. It's usually also less that you would expect by any of the generic lift to weight guidelines.

[Mumbles]

I use black powder for everything. While there are options like benzolift and H3 (also generally for smaller shells), the majority of people also use BP for everything. The grain size doesn't really change a lot. I like to use 4FA for smaller shell, 3" and below generally. 2FA for anything larger. If you decide to make a 24, 36, 48" shell you could think about 1FA, but 2FA is just fine still. The rule of thumb is an ounce per pound up to 10lbs, an 1/2 oz per pound for every additional pound there after. For instance, a 20lb shell would use 15oz of lift.

[flying fish]

Apparently Fales didn't follow that rule with the 24 he shot two nights ago . I kept hearing figures around 10% lift from 14 to 17 lbs. Pyro Gossip I guess? It made one hell of a bang coming out of the gun, I think he was going for altitude on this one so those long burning stars had time to perform. It turned out beautifully. I'm not sure what grain sizes he use, I'll have to ask at the next shoot. Probably the most beautiful 24 I've seen too.

 

If anyone is curious, it's around the 0:43 mark here

, and the youtuber incidentally captured my 4" at the very beginning of the video . I used 4 oz of 2FA to lift that. The shell weighed 3.5 lbs.

 

But for a more relevant response, I really think BP is the answer to all your lifting needs. You can of course make your own, but If you ever end up buying commercially made powder, one common beginner mistake is to not understand how grain sizes translate between sporting and blasting grades (G and A grades). Skylighter has a helpful table for that http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/help/Black_Powder_Size_Charts.asp

Edited July 18, 2016 by flying fish

[braddsn]

BP for everything. I use meal coated rice hulls for both lift and break.

[WindowLicka]

BP for everything. I use meal coated rice hulls for both lift and break.

Is that a common thing to do? Use meal coated rice hulls for lift? I've heard of it for break but this is a first I'm hearing of it for lift.

 

I really dig the way that the bigger (24"+) shells ascend skyward like they are simply floating rather than screaming up there like smaller shells look like they are. When you progress to big ass shells I wonder if the majority paste their own shells or have a WASP to do it for them. That's a badass piece of equipment...the WASP. What do those things set a pyro back? A few grand easy probably.

[FlaMtnBkr]

Roughly $2k. A little more or less depending on options. I think the average WASP handles up to 16" shells. I think he has made them to go bigger if I remember right.

[Mumbles]

A majority of larger ball shells are getting pasted on a WASP. Here's the actual website by the way https://ctpyro.com/ . Jim has made them to handle shells up to 24" I think. To handle larger shells it's mostly just stronger motors and arm extensions. I think people need to paste some shells by hand to really understand how much more convenient WASPs are. Larger shells require pasting in several sittings when done by hand, whereas they seem to be able to be done all at once and of course automated on a WASP.

 

One thing of note. When firing very large shells (16"+) I've been told that something to stand the shell off the bottom of the gun is usually used. The mass of the shell is often enough to crush the lift. I've seen all sorts of things like stout cardboard stands, metal rings, car tires, etc. being used. It may also give the burning lift a little room to expand first before lifting the shell. This could make it a little less violent.

[Shadowcat1969]

Is that a common thing to do? Use meal coated rice hulls for lift? I've heard of it for break but this is a first I'm hearing of it for lift.

 

I really dig the way that the bigger (24"+) shells ascend skyward like they are simply floating rather than screaming up there like smaller shells look like they are. When you progress to big ass shells I wonder if the majority paste their own shells or have a WASP to do it for them. That's a badass piece of equipment...the WASP. What do those things set a pyro back? A few grand easy probably.

Using MCRH for lift is becoming a lot more common, at least in hobbyist ball shells. It is what I use. It simply comes down to a case of grain size....if your grains of granulated powder are similar in size to MCRH, then really, they are pretty close to the same thing. i.e. if you weigh out 5 oz of granulated compared to 5 oz of MCRH, it is all still just 5 oz of BP. You do get slightly different burning characteristics due to the fact that the MCRH actually has more surface area, generally speaking, but for lift of shells from 3"-12" it is a negligible difference.

 

The standard Super Stinger WASP will handle up to 12" shells out of the box, Jim sells an add on kit that has different motors, drive wheels and an arm extension to do up to 16".

[schroedinger]

I tried them all (and some variations) and can tell you bp is all you need.

 

H3 works ok but can be easly burst a mortar. Benzolift works very good to but storing it is not a good idea and it mostly is a litle bit too strong. The best lift substitute i now of is benzo lift made with pottasium sorbate.

 

Up to 1.2" 4 or 5 FA up to 4" 4 FA over that 2 FA.

 

Up to 3" use a static ammount of lift. You can calculate this by making a couple dummy shells with different ammounts of lift. Start with 25 g for 3", 15 for 2.5 and 7 for 2" and work your way down/up according to your personal lift strenght.