Merlin Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 For those of you who use a retort I have found that my 5 gal bucket fits inside the shell of an old Brinkman smoker with the burner underneath. The smoker is vented on top of course but I suspect this will hold the heat much better than simply setting the can on the burner in the open especially if there's a breeze. I haven't tried it yet but I suspect it will take less propane. Just a thought. No doubt the tlud would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 Theoretically encasing the retort should have been an improvement but I could not see any-not with the effort! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroedinger Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 My vote for the TLUD too. Both methods work very good. The retort needs to be watched quite carefully and taken out at the right time and better use a small retort then a big one, as it gives a more consistent result since the outside and the middle are quite close together temperaturewise and finsh at the same time. In a big ine i had problems that the outside wood was ddne when the jnaide still needs a couple minutes. A TLUD is much easier to operate and if you don't have a problem with smoke yiu can cook the pet bedding at really low temperatures by only using a small chimney or use a 5 gallon barrel with a 5 gallon barrel as chimney. With fresh pet bedding and some dialing in of the bottom holes this can operate self extingtushing. Alsk wood splits are coked up very fast and the quality is always in the same ballpark area, no better and lesser batches like in a retort. The worst charcoal my TLUD ever made, was wood pellets. 5 gallons took about 2 hours to cook with a roaring burn. The charcoal was still better then a lesser retort batch. I can't say if this was due to the unknown woods in the pellets (mostly pine and poplar but 30% not specified) or due to the long cooking phase. Buthell it was perfect for charcoa, stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 My experiences exactly, the retort could make great charcoal but never as good as TLUD charcoal from the same wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) I have read many articles on tlud. Most of them concerned use for cooking food in foreign third world nations that also produced bio char. For some reason I can't visualize how a tlud does not consume all the wood as leave ashes since there is a fire burning inside it. I am not at all mechanically gifted. I like the simplicity of the one pictured by dagabu in this thread. Can someone provide a link to info to a simple 5 gallon tlud useful for only making charcoal? Plans that can be followed by an idiot with few tools.My nearest neighbors are so far away smoke is no issue. Edited July 22, 2016 by Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memo Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 articles on FW tlud that should give you all you need. memo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckufarley Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Merlin, I did a tutorial on my 5 gallon TLUD a while ago. couldn't get pictures to upload in the thread but if you read it and want pics, I can email them to you or something. http://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/11608-5-gallon-tlud-charcoal-cooker/?fromsearch=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumbles Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 All charcoal has ash in it. The amount varies, but somewhat tracks with the quality of charcoal actually. The better stuff tends to be lower is ash, really hot stuff has 3-5%, whereas the lesser stuff can have 15-20%. Anyway, ash is the salts and inorganic content of the wood left over after all the fuel is consumed. It's not that one method produces more ash than the other. Rather, it's more of a situation that some methods burn up more of the fuel than others. Based on this, I'd expect that TLUD charcoal has a higher ash content than an equivalent retort charcoal. There is a lot more than ash content that affects charcoal quality however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Here, let me get that for you... LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) Here, let me get that for you... LINKYou will note from my previous post I said I am an idiot! Don't know how I missed it but I was looking at larger 55 gal types a bit more complex. Thanks Edited July 22, 2016 by Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidF Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 I have only ever used the retort method. Before I knew I had to be careful not to overcook it, I was producing excellent BP with the retort. Then when I realized how careful one had to be, I was producing excellent BP with the retort. Instead of using a smaller retort to get the middle of the mass up to temperature, I put a cylindrical wire cage in the middle of the retort and piled the wood around it. I only did it for ERC shavings, because they were the only thing that did not char in the middle of my retort. I have heard people say TLUD'ed charcoal is not as good, just as good, and better than retorted charcoal. One of those things is true, all else being equal. But has all else ever been equal? Has anybody done side by side tests with wood from the same batch, and made identical batch of BP prepared in identical ways? I don't mean to be flip, but I haven't seen any test results or anything containing numbers. I have made what I thought to be identical batches of meal-coated rice hulls from what I thought were identical batches of BP, all made from a single batch of charcoal. The differences in the 'whump!' factor were really obvious. I only mention this to point out that it is more than a simple thing to make identical batches of BP one after another, by the methods we hobbyists employ. It would be great to see the results of a controlled set of tests comparing TLUDed and retorted charcoals. I can't imagine my charcoals being even better, but I'm open to the possibility! Regarding the ash issue: a good BP charcoal has lower ash, as Mumbles already pointed out. But I think we might be talking apples and oranges here. It seems to me that the people are not concerned about the natural ash content of charcoal, they are concerned about ashes in the charcoal. A charcoal that has a high volatiles content has a lower carbon content. To me, that automatically translates into a lower ash content. Some of the charcoals in O 'Neill's charcoals study (which is excellent BTW) were storebought, overcooked charcoals. So, of course they a higher percentage by weight of ash when they were burned later. It is commonly believed that oak makes poor BP charcoal. We know that this is not necessarily true. Royal Oak barbecue charcoal is mostly oak. It makes crappy BP charcoal. Therefore it is concluded that oak makes crappy BP charcoal. A more accurate statement would be that over-cooked oak charcoal makes crappy BP charcoal. I don't know how much effort a person has to go through to ruin BP charcoal by over-heating it, but my noobie hands never made a bad batch with a retort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 Thanks to everyone for information. I cooked 5 gal of erc on a retort yesterday and really packed it down. About every 10-15 minutes I remove the bucket and flip it side to side and roll it. The pet bedding cooks down quickly and by removing it and rolling back and forth I got a good cook all the way through. One thing I like about pet bedding is you don't have to crush chunks of charcoal, grind and so on. I just press it down with a 4x4 to reduce volume and it mills with nitrate and S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 You will note from my previous post I said I am an idiot! Don't know how I missed it but I was looking at larger 55 gal types a bit more complex. Thanks LOL! You are no idiot, I just like to poke fun once in a while! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 ...Royal Oak barbecue charcoal is mostly oak. It makes crappy BP charcoal. Therefore it is concluded that oak makes crappy BP charcoal... This is one of the most curious subjects I have ever had the chance to look into. A tree is leaning in my yard that I must attend to with ground anchors and come-alongs so I dont have time right now to catalog all my efforts. This I will say: I have a #50 bag of Royal Oak charcoal in my shop, it makes fantastic, over the shelf BP. Why? It's Royal Oak's airfloat that Tim Seecon of PyroChem Source sells. They are both located right here in Minnesota. They use a retort unlike anything you have ever seen and it a continuous operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted July 22, 2016 Author Share Posted July 22, 2016 You will note from my previous post I said I am an idiot! Don't know how I missed it but I was looking at larger 55 gal types a bit more complex. ThanksOne of the best things about fireworking in addition to the addicting smoke is all the great people on this forum- no joke- maybe a little mushy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagabu Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) Awwww, group hug!!! P.S. The tree is back up! Edited July 22, 2016 by dagabu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schroedinger Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 A more accurate statement would be that over-cooked oak charcoal makes crappy BP charcoal. I don't know how much effort a person has to go through to ruin BP charcoal by over-heating it, but my noobie hands never made a bad batch with a retort.There is a equilibrium between temperature and time. The longer and hotter you heat the charcoal, the more volatiles are driven of and more graphite form. For the graphite part the sweet spot is somewhere between 430 - 500 ºC. After this temperature a real strong increase in graphite formation happens. At 800ºC it was minuteskto reach the max graphite ammount. The lowest graphite content would be reached at 340 ºC. Here the formation of graphite was lower then i 800ºC even after 50 hours. Thats what i wrote down from a study about the formatio of graphite. But i forgot to write down where it was published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidF Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) Yes I read that before too. I think that the temperature in my closed retort that is 13 1/2" diameter X 15 1/2" high inside, stays pretty stable inside, like a pressure cooker. When the pressure subsides, the temperature rise happens quickly. It's pretty easy to use the issuance of smoke or flame to get an idea when the internal pressure is high, waning, and then negligible. Then the graphite formation sets in, as localized over-heating occurs. At least, that how I personally interpret it. If my impression is correct, that's why I haven't wrecked a batch yet. When the flame coming out the spigot gets weak, I pull it from the heat right away, every single time. Also, I plug the spigot and leave it to cool before opening, always. I really liked Oldguy's retort project. But suddenly he was gone from here. I hope he is still kicking. Edited July 23, 2016 by DavidF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidF Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 This is one of the most curious subjects I have ever had the chance to look into. A tree is leaning in my yard that I must attend to with ground anchors and come-alongs so I dont have time right now to catalog all my efforts. This I will say: I have a #50 bag of Royal Oak charcoal in my shop, it makes fantastic, over the shelf BP. Why? It's Royal Oak's airfloat that Tim Seecon of PyroChem Source sells. They are both located right here in Minnesota. They use a retort unlike anything you have ever seen and it a continuous operation. Dave, do you mean your Royal Oak charcoal makes good lift and burst? How do you process it? I looked up Royal Oak Minnesota and got Northwest Charcoal and Chemical Co. In their list of products, they do list charcoal for fireworks. Otherwise, the website doesn't say much. It would be interesting to know more about their retort process. I have not been able to find out much information on how charcoal is produced commercially myself. Thanks! All information welcome on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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