Mumbles Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 Cylinders don't break quite as hard generally. Stars will light easier usually. Have some faith in your techniques. Or at least have some faith in us to help. These are my favorite type of fireworks. Any time you post I probably wont be able to help but to chime in.
dagabu Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 Ill write more tomorrow but I''l say this up front: If its a traditional Italian shell, *there is no booster. OK, I want to take a moment and explain what I meant by "no booster". Obviously, there are Sfera and Spiderweb Shells with flash bag bursts. Some think of this as a "booster", I do not. I think of a booster as a loose powder such as whistle or flash dumped into the shell, into the burst. Potato, potato....
schroedinger Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 I do remember seeing an old video of an Italian fireworks factory where they were pouring a mysterious gray powder into their shells... But most people don't for cylinder shells because it's not needed, and in multis and it can be detrimental to the spolette of the next break or its probability of taking fire. I use 2 strands of pasted flax or hemp twine (the stuff that's approximately 20lb test). Do that and you can get powerful breaks without any kind of booster and average BP. +1 on the flax twine here (luckly imstocked it up at a local butch supply shop whennit was on sale for 10 $/kg). I think i know which video you talk about, the one where a quite famouse italian builder is making an insert shell, fills the voids with smashed tubes and then pulls out a 3-5 kg bag of flash? What to say bot methods work and have their pros and cons. The brake only with 2FA is what we normally call "classic" building style. The use of a booster is just an adoption of a new technique. For some people both are good but some will also describe them as wrongbutright. OK, I want to take a moment and explain what I meant by "no booster". Obviously, there are Sfera and Spiderweb Shells with flash bag bursts. Some think of this as a "booster", I do not. I think of a booster as a loose powder such as whistle or flash dumped into the shell, into the burst. Potato, potato....Like you say point of view, but if you add that sferas can easly made by just using rough powder as the filler for the voids everyone should be on your side. The flash is the main burst, the bp only fills the voids (not turned at you dag i know you know this, but merlin maybe not).
dagabu Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 Paul Moulder over at Passfire said it MUCH more concisely: "Using any kind of flash booster in my opinion is not needed unless you are making a spider web shell in which case a flash bag would be appropriate. Charcoal based stars will light with ease from a flash bag or flash boosted B.P, the same cannot be said of most colour stars." I share the same opinion but he is a much better writer.
Pretty green flame Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 Hi there everyone, glad to see some of the veterans are still alive and kicking I do keep track of the forum even if i'm not as active as I used to be here, been busy with work and doing my PhD as well as not having a proper place to do pyro atm. Merlin, I loved making traditional italian cylinder shells back in the day and there were a few papers that helped me a ton. You can find them in the link below. They are a very good read and I do highly recommend them. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qys6z83m047go05/AACh3PciIrWqvE8JBNr6XnZKa?dl=0 Cheers,PGF
flying fish Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 The video I was talking about was not of a specific shell builder; it was a factory with many workers in Italy in the 1970s I think? With lots of really goofy music playing in the background. It was on Youtube, and someone linked to it on Passfire about 2 years ago, but I can't seem to find it at the moment. I think they were pouring loose flash into shells, not a flash bag. I'm going by memory from 2 years ago, so it's possible I don't remember correctly. There were other things in the video that I found interesting. Some of the multis were being assembled in what we call (perhaps incorrectly?) the hybrid Italian/Maltese method. They were cutting holes in the bottom of pasted shells with a razor blade, digging out some of the powder, and then inserting the spolette from another shell. I'd love to see that video again if anyone knows where to find it!
memo Posted July 14, 2016 Posted July 14, 2016 i saw the video you are talking about, i looked on utube and couldnt find it i think it was posted by 1pyro8 or freakpyromaniacs memo
dagabu Posted July 16, 2016 Posted July 16, 2016 The video I was talking about was not of a specific shell builder; it was a factory with many workers in Italy in the 1970s I think? With lots of really goofy music playing in the background. It was on Youtube, and someone linked to it on Passfire about 2 years ago, but I can't seem to find it at the moment. I think they were pouring loose flash into shells, not a flash bag. I'm going by memory from 2 years ago, so it's possible I don't remember correctly. There were other things in the video that I found interesting. Some of the multis were being assembled in what we call (perhaps incorrectly?) the hybrid Italian/Maltese method. They were cutting holes in the bottom of pasted shells with a razor blade, digging out some of the powder, and then inserting the spolette from another shell. I'd love to see that video again if anyone knows where to find it! I saw that video on a VCR some years back at a fellow pyros home and he swore at the TV about unsound techniques. I thought it was a really inventive way to make a bunch of single breaks and stack them as you want. Just my opinion...
flying fish Posted July 17, 2016 Posted July 17, 2016 The technique is not all that uncommon - it is how Maltese builders put shells together and many well respected hobbyists do too (I do as well, but I don't consider myself a well-respected hobbyist ). One common failure mode for these is that the different breaks seperate during lift (Paul M posted about a shell failing in this manner on Passfire recently), but the technique has advantages such as break consistency, since all breaks have the same amount of spiking on them. I am curious if it is necessarily "non-traditional" or if it is simply "non-Fulcanelli". I guess I don't know enough about the history of Italian shells.
memo Posted July 18, 2016 Posted July 18, 2016 The video I was talking about was not of a specific shell builder; it was a factory with many workers in Italy in the 1970s I think? With lots of really goofy music playing in the background. It was on Youtube, and someone linked to it on Passfire about 2 years ago, but I can't seem to find it at the moment. I think they were pouring loose flash into shells, not a flash bag. I'm going by memory from 2 years ago, so it's possible I don't remember correctly. There were other things in the video that I found interesting. Some of the multis were being assembled in what we call (perhaps incorrectly?) the hybrid Italian/Maltese method. They were cutting holes in the bottom of pasted shells with a razor blade, digging out some of the powder, and then inserting the spolette from another shell. I'd love to see that video again if anyone knows where to find I found the video it is hd-fireworks on youtube I cant seem to link it here . it is called itialian fireworks factory Raffaele pellicani
memo Posted July 18, 2016 Posted July 18, 2016 thanks Patrick, I don't know why it wouldn't copy and paste for me. memo
flying fish Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) Thanks, that was great! A little inspiration and ideas every once in a while comes in handy. However, that wasn't the video I was thinking of. It was an old grainy video...I think it was color but it was poor color, more of everything looks yellow....of a large Italian factory (as I said, probably made in the 70s) with bizarre music playing in the background. It was a long video, probably at least an hour. At the end they show a display with a heavy barrage of cylinder shells (today we would say "Don't you want to shoot those nice shell individually?!") Edit: I've searched high and low and I'm convinced the video no longer exists on the internet. I might ask around and see if I can track down a copy. Does anyone remember what it was called by chance? Edited July 19, 2016 by flying fish
Wiley Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 This? https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLNbdr-ZCuUQNhW2FaWKUSZq1Dz-SoDSu6¶ms=OAFIAVgE&v=R9kW-LDOzpw&mode=NORMAL Looks like some granulated flash in there.
flying fish Posted July 19, 2016 Posted July 19, 2016 That's the one! I'll have to watch it after work and see if I actually remember everything correctly. Thank you!
Wiley Posted July 20, 2016 Posted July 20, 2016 Saved that sucker in a playlist. Knew I'd never find it again if I closed the tab
OldMarine Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) I'm building some 3" cylinders to top off a few rockets. I'm using 1/2' primed stars so i can fit 11 in a ring. This doesn't leave room for other stars between the outer ring and my cannule. Should I just fill the entire center with burst and forgo the cannule? Edited July 21, 2016 by OldMarine
memo Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 sure . why not. i run out of room i just add a little boost
OldMarine Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 Thanks memo, I tried to PM Wiley since I know he does smaller shells but I think he's busy as a bee right now.
Wiley Posted July 21, 2016 Posted July 21, 2016 Wiley replied Here's the PM, just to reiterate: Just fill that central cavity up with the fastest powder you have, and spike with more verticals, as outlined in Fulcanelli. That'll give you a good pop and spread those big stars all over the place.Ned does just that in this article: https://fireworking.com/content/3-color-and-report-shell 1
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