Flash ratios?

[Lrsnsam]

Hello, I'm making some flash powder for some bottle rockets. Currently I'm using 3 grams 5413 Eckert HS aluminum and 7 grams of high purity potassium perchlorate. I need to make around 3,000 grams by the 4th and I was wondering if it is okay to do bigger batches instead of the normal 10 gram. Could I do 14/6 batches? Please let me know what one would advise.

 

Edit: I am using nitrate/sugar for my propellant. I am making around 2,000 rockets. Each one is getting propellant, flash, then dragon eggs. This is what I'm doing: diaper method on one paper, drain into a fine sieve over another paper, shake sieve, wait till there are only perchlorate chunks left in sieve, crush perchlorate chucks with wooden stick over paper, diaper method on the new paper. Is this way safe? Would it still be safe if I do it with 100 gram batches? I am not storing the batches. As soon as I'm done it goes straight into each rocket. I am doing this in my green house because it is really humid in there and on top of that spraying everything with static guard.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Lrsnsam

[ddewees]

3000 grams for some bottle rockets!?

 

That's a lot of bottle rockets...

 

Typically you make as much as you need to complete the task you're working on. If you can (safely) add 3000 grams to X number of bottle rockets, then by all means... make all 3000 grams at the same time.

 

Assuming you can safely mix that quantity without adding any additional risks, that's the best way to go.

 

Regardless, since it's apparent you haven't mixed large quantities before, you're going to find yourself under duress... no worries though, you typically won't feel a thing.

[AzoMittle]

......How much flash are you adding to each bottle rocket? How many rockets do you plan on making? Do you know what the diaper method is?

 

What kind of propellant are you using? Are you following an online tutorial or is this your own custom design? How did you come up with the figure of 3 kilo's? I'm not sure if you realize just how much that actually is, a typical little 1/4" bottle rocket probably only needs a gram or two a piece at most.

 

edit: As far as mixing batch size goes, I would keep it as small as is reasonable, it doesn't take very long to weigh and mix.

Edited June 26, 2016 by AzoMittle

[Merlin]

6 lbs of flash? Beyond dangerous. A static spark and they might find body parts or not for funeral. I should think bottle rockets would do fine with 5 to 7 FA BP. Maybe you want flash for report headers on bottle rockets. I will not make more than 50 g at one time Iif 70 perc 30 dark al. Good luck- looks like it will be too dry for any fireworks around here though I am preparing any way 100 g 70/30 was quite sufficient for shells, crossettes and rockets.

[schroedinger]

Yes of course you can make bigger batches. For those big ammounts, flash gets sived. But you will need someone to show you how it is done. Siving flash is certainly no beginner task. It's more a sifting like corn flour then rubbkng the comp through a sieve.

 

And no it isn't safer to do 300 times ×10 g compared to 6×500 g or 1× 3000 g.

[Lrsnsam]

......How much flash are you adding to each bottle rocket? How many rockets do you plan on making? Do you know what the diaper method is?

 

What kind of propellant are you using? Are you following an online tutorial or is this your own custom design? How did you come up with the figure of 3 kilo's? I'm not sure if you realize just how much that actually is, a typical little 1/4" bottle rocket probably only needs a gram or two a piece at most.

 

edit: As far as mixing batch size goes, I would keep it as small as is reasonable, it doesn't take very long to weigh and mix.

I am using nitrate/sugar for my propellant. I am making around 2,000 rockets. Each one is getting propellant, flash, then dragon eggs. This is what I'm doing: diaper method on one paper, drain into a fine sieve over another paper, shake sieve, wait till there are only perchlorate chunks left in sieve, crush perchlorate chucks with wooden stick over paper, diaper method on the new paper. Is this way safe? Would it still be safe if I do it with 100 gram batches? I am not storing the batches. As soon as I'm done it goes straight into each rocket. I am doing this in my green house because it is really humid in there and on top of that spraying everything with static guard. Edited June 26, 2016 by Lrsnsam

[PhoenixRising]

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Edited June 27, 2016 by PhoenixRising

[PhoenixRising]

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Edited June 27, 2016 by PhoenixRising

[OldMarine]

I'm cringing at the thought of crushing aluminum dusted perc through a screen. Pre-mill or crush and screen your perc before starting any mixing.

[ddewees]

I don't believe his story... nobody would make 2000 rockets.

 

I think he wants to make a huge ground bomb, and is wondering if he can mix that amount without killing himself.

[OldMarine]

Someone posted somewhere a gang loader/press setup for pressing 20- 1/4" rockets at once. Even with that tooling I'd imagine it would take forever and a day to press 2000 rockets.

[Lrsnsam]

I don't believe his story... nobody would make 2000 rockets.

 

I think he wants to make a huge ground bomb, and is wondering if he can mix that amount without killing himself.

I don't want to make a huge ground bomb. I live on a small lake that has firework competitions. I will be lighting off a lot of rockets at once, not 2000 per say but a lot. There is a cash prize for the winner. To be clear, I shouldn't do more than 14/6 or is that okay?

[MrB]

Single batch vs human nature and sloppy ness when doing the same thing over and over...

 

Yes, i agree, a 3 kilo batch is not quite "hobby" but at some point you have to decide if your going to do the same repetitive task over and over, until it blows your hand of, or just stay safe with a larger load.

Personally... I would rather make 3 1 kilo batches, then 6 500 gram one. On the other hand, my workspace isn't big enough that i think i even could make a 3 kilo batch. And if 500 gram, 1 kilo, or 3 kilo's goes of... i'm toast either way.

 

These kinds of threads make me happy i only use tiny amounts of flash in effects, never make that many of them at the same time, and do large salutes using the binary strategy.

B!

[PhoenixRising]

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Edited June 27, 2016 by PhoenixRising

[Lrsnsam]

Single batch vs human nature and sloppy ness when doing the same thing over and over...

 

Yes, i agree, a 3 kilo batch is not quite "hobby" but at some point you have to decide if your going to do the same repetitive task over and over, until it blows your hand of, or just stay safe with a larger load.

Personally... I would rather make 3 1 kilo batches, then 6 500 gram one. On the other hand, my workspace isn't big enough that i think i even could make a 3 kilo batch. And if 500 gram, 1 kilo, or 3 kilo's goes of... i'm toast either way.

 

These kinds of threads make me happy i only use tiny amounts of flash in effects, never make that many of them at the same time, and do large salutes using the binary strategy.

B!

What would be the safest but largest amount to make at a time? Would 100 grams blow off fingers? Even if uncontained? Could I do 49/21 batches? If I do 10 gram batches is one of the times bound to go off?

[Lrsnsam]

I'm cringing at the thought of crushing aluminum dusted perc through a screen. Pre-mill or crush and screen your perc before starting any mixing.

My aluminum is 3 micron. When I use this method none of the perchlorate that is left in the sieve is dusted with aluminum.

[PhoenixRising]

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Edited June 27, 2016 by PhoenixRising

[Lrsnsam]

It's also human nature for one to push the limits, sometimes beyond reason. This being one of those cases.

 

If you can't safely mix a large amount of ANY comp in a short period of time, then you don't do it.

 

If you have to question whether it is safe or not, then you don't do it.

 

This discussion probably belongs in the HE forum at this point.

 

You should probably just slow down a bit and rethink this whole "fireworks competition." It's not worth your life to risk it.

Would 20 gram batches be risking it? By now I am not going to make 3000 grams because you guys talked me out of it. I am thinking of just taking it slow, using all safety measures when mixing, and making as many 20 gram batches as I can. Would this be okay?

[PhoenixRising]

My aluminum is 3 micron. When I use this method none of the perchlorate that is left in the sieve is dusted with aluminum.

 

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Edited June 27, 2016 by PhoenixRising

[Lrsnsam]

 

Can you see 3 microns with the naked eye?

I am here to learn. I will not sieve both powders together anymore. Could you respond to my last question?

[ddewees]

Build yourself a 20 mesh screen like this, 18" 24"...

 

http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o588/SaltLakeAreaPyros/screen_zpssfs1qqoa.png

 

You can screen about 5000 grams with that size.

 

This was 7lbs KClO4, 3lbs Al, 1lb S.

 

http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o588/SaltLakeAreaPyros/20140904_182306-1_zpsr46jyh2y.jpg

[Sparx88]

you know, I see it time after time after time and oh yah, time after time where people respond to a post without reading the damn OP. Is it hard on the eyes? Maybe have carpy tunnel digits? Mouse wheel broken maybe? But some people are "so" wise they don't need to and still expect a dollar for their 2 cents. Then you have the wanna be wise who don't read the reply's previous to their own, you know, so you don't repeat whats been said already. Or they repeat something "like" the previous replies because they feel they will seem intelligent. Then when someone calls them on it, the claim they did'nt read them by accident and claim they knew what they were talking about all the same. That way you can be a part of the party with "mad knowledge" without commiting full on plagiarism.

 

Anyway, the only advice I have for the new guy wanting legitimate, flash powder info is don't push it. It only takes getting bit once. And unless your in bed with local law enforcement, dea, fbi etc etc you may want to consider how much attention your going to draw when sending those bright white fireballs in the sky, 200, or 2000 times. Plus as you know, the noise is "never" an issue because we all have nothing but cool neighbors who will want to join in and party. Well I know I do, but just don't push it ok. Small batches at a time. What you see above is a nice pile of fun but done by someone who knows how to and live to talk about.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Sparx88

[MrB]

you know, I see it time after time after time and oh yah, time after time where people respond to a post without reading the damn OP. Is it hard on the eyes? Maybe have carpy tunnel digits? Mouse wheel broken maybe? But some people are "so" wise they don't need to and still expect a dollar for their 2 cents. Then you have the wanna be wise who don't read the reply's previous to their own, you know, so you don't repeat whats been said already. Or they repeat something "like" the previous replies because they feel they will seem intelligent. Then when soneone calls them on it, the claim they did'nt read them by accident and claim they knew what they were talking about all the same. That way you can be a part of the party with "mad knowledge" without commiting full on plagiarism.

 

 

 

Hey! i know stuff! I really do! Ok, so joking aside... You got a point.

 

What would be the safest but largest amount to make at a time?

 

First mistake, and this is one you can walk away from. There simply is no "safe" amount of flash.

 

Would 100 grams blow off fingers? Even if uncontained?

 

I don't remember at which point each type of flash selfcontains, and with cause a rapid energetic release of hot gasses with a bang... Actually, i've seen numbers that vary a lot, and nothing really takes in to account the difference in chemicals, and compositions based on type & quality of them, so there is no possible way to know. But 100 grams could easily turn your face in to a not so pretty picture, and you wont be doing your self any favors trying to hold the melting bits in place with your badly hurt hands, and that's just from burning rapidly, not from "exploding". (Explosions sort of points in the direction of detonations, and flash deflagrates, not detonates, making the transition between flash fire, and explosion sort of fluid... Anyway... Don't get caught in a fireball)

 

Could I do 49/21 batches? If I do 10 gram batches is one of the times bound to go off?

 

People do kilo batches and more daily. You can do batch sizes of any kind. It's your life. There is nothing that says that every 15'th batch has to go of with a flash and a bang. But human nature goes in the direction of laziness, which means that the more you do it, the more you'll feel "safe" and be prone to shortcuts, and stupid mistakes. I will carry bits of plastic shrapnel with me for the rest of my life. It's embedded in my left hand, my abdomen, and in my... for a lack of a better word, ballsack. (This is, a family forum.) Trust me. I was working with something a lot more sensitive then flash, and i still got careless, and made a stupid mistake.

Don't be the next guy we read about in the newspaper. "Kid blew him self up in his parents garage - Pyro's online are to blame!"

[ddewees]

This was 50 grams in a loose pile that ignited with a laser. I didn't expect it to blow up...

 

It even knocked a shovel off my neighbors wall in his garage.

 

[Video]

 

 

It doesn't take much to self contain.

[Lrsnsam]

I really appreciate all the responses I got! I have a question: if I wore a welding suit will that prevent a burn? I am a perfectionist. I've watched multiple people make batches of flash online that know what they are doing and I do the exact same BUT better. I spray everything, I mean EVERYTHING with static guard. I use the diaper method. I only crush the perchlorate on its own. I only sieve the perchlorate on its own over the aluminum. I only do my work in over 60% humidity. If I follow all of these steps, is there still any possibility something could go wrong? Don't be that guy that answers like everyone knows and says that something could always go wrong because I'm aware. Realistically is there any minute possibility of something going wrong doing everything I do? I started mixing 30 gram batches. Edited June 27, 2016 by Lrsnsam