flash powder why is it bad

[mormanman]

why is everyone here against ground salutes is it just because they migt make a bomb or something i'm just wondering because i did read about cherry bombs and m80s in the pyrotectnics topics thing

 

remember i'm just wondering ok i'm not going to make a bomb i'm not even asking how to make it ok so don't ban me or nothing thanks

[DeAdFX]

The reason why we are against m80's/salutes is because...

 

1) We do not wish to attract the attention of K3wls, aka ignorant teenagers who are only interested in making a boom and have no concern for safety.

 

2) They are one of the more sensitive pyrotechnic compisitions. If you mess up and have one of these things go off near you chances are you will get seriously injured or die.

 

3) We do not wish to attract the attention of homeland security.

[Frozentech]

why is everyone here against ground salutes is it just because they migt make a bomb or something i'm just wondering because i did read about cherry bombs and m80s in the pyrotectnics topics thing

 

remember i'm just wondering ok i'm not going to make a bomb i'm not even asking how to make it ok so don't ban me or nothing thanks

Because government agencies take a particular interest in M80's. There is a significant black market for underground M80's, which the CPSC has basically taken a holy vow to stamp out " Just say NO to firecrackers ".

 

Other fireworks, including aerial salutes, large bottomshot shells, etc, have legitimate manufacturers who are licensed to make them. No one who is not under contract to the government to make combat simulators is licensed to make m80's or other large ground salute devices.

[aquaman]

We're not totally against them, it's just many newbies try to start off with m-80's and that kinda of stuff without knowing the dangers of the compositions and materials they're using. I think that is the main purpose of this website, to bring people's attention away from the salutes and to show them fountains, rockets, ect... In fact I have more fun "trying" to perfect rockets and shells than lighting off firecrackers. Also like mentioned above the government is trying to get rid of m-80 making all together even the chem suppliers that don't intentionally sell m-80 products to people.

 

 

Many pyros don't mind a bang here and there, it's just that pyrotechnics is so much more than a "big boom"(-mythbusters)....

[cplmac]

M-80's and Cherry Bombs are just about the only pyrotechnic devices specifically banned by name. The gov has a hard on for this stuff, because they don't believe in Darwinism.

[Mumbles]

Flash powder isn't inherently bad. However in the wrong hands, such as those of the inexperience, it becomes bad. It is quite dangerous to make and handle. Even I don't like making if I can avoid it. It of course has it's uses and such. None of these uses apply to newbies, as the devices are unneccesarily complicated.

 

Flash powder is the main reason that there is trouble with the hobby. When someone hears you make fireworks, they automatically assume booms and bangs. I hope you realise that there is far more to the hobby. Accidents with flash are not neccesarily the most common, but they are often the most damaging and most publicised. It's rare to have a true accident with flash and walk away with sight, hearing, 10 fingers and no scars.

 

Now onto why the forum doesn't like it. Newbies get started in flash WAYYYYY to early. To me flash has it's place in pyro, but on it's own it's not pyro. Ground salutes are very much frowned upon. They are just stupid, and cause undue attention to the person making them. Yeah they're loud, so what? That's all they are. You are many times more likely to be near a ground salute if it were to accidentally go off as well, making them by default more dangerous. Not to mention the higher shrapnel hazard.

 

Another reason the forum discourages flash for newbies is because they always try to reinvent the wheel. Standard flash is 70-30 Perchlorate-Blackhead Aluminum. There are other mixes for specialized purposes, but 70-30 is the standard and used in most cases. Perchlorates and blackhead aluminum are not the easiest things to get. Newbies then experiment with other materials. In the process of experimenting they ask a hundred and one stupid questions about it, starting a new thread for every one. Being new to the hobby they want something simple. Flash and salutes are simple, but dangerous as well as very illegal. No one got into this hobby over night. It takes patience and lots of reading.

 

Probably the number one thing that pisses me off is permanganate flash. No matter what anyone says it's dangerous, unstable, and IMO should not be made under any circumstances. 10 experienced members will all come by calmly and explain this to the person asking about it. Explain that it's probably not worth the risk, and that even though easy to obtain, it is about the last oxidiser than anyone would want to work with. Then comes some fucktard boomer maker that says KMnO4 flash is easy to make and fun. He's made hundreds of big salutes and never had an accident, so obviously it has to be safe, blah blah blah. This ruins the whole point. If someone wanted to try something they'll more often than not look for advise supporting what they want to do, rather than those points of view against it.

 

 

If someone is using flash in a safe manner, I have no problem with it being discussed. However, when it's being used in an unsafe/destructive manner is when I get mad. 9 out of 10 bans result from flash powder related inquiries. Please, before asking about flash, search the forums. There are several topics on it, and will help to explain things well. Threads like "how do I make flash powder" will be locked and possibly result in a banning. People who continually ask stupid questions, are the ones not ready for the hobby.

[ewest]

I think everyone did a pretty good job of explaining the flash topic here. It's not that we're against it, as a matter of fact I do believe everyone likes a boom now and then, but ground salutes are just TOO dangerous. They're best used in aerial situations, shells, rocket headings, etc.

 

I'll admit that in my younger years of just getting into the hobby I rammed a bunch of BP (not even flash) into a tube to make a big firecracker. Well it went off and a plug hit me in the head almost putting my eye out. I was lucky all I got was a bruise and not missing one eye today.

 

If you've ever seen a true M80 go off near you you'll understand why we talk like this, there is no comparison between BP and flash. Flash is literally 100 times more powerful than BP.

 

There's a logical order that you must go in when learning pyrotechnics and the making of flash is probably 20th on the list but sadly most people attempt it as the 1st thing.

 

If you truely want to learn about pyrotechnics, stick around on the forum but please listen to the advice of the older people who've been doing it a while. You'll find that there is a wealth of knowledge here and we're all willing to share because of love of the hobby.

[ULTRABUF]

I will admit that I started out making flash salutes when I started out a couple years ago, and I did not use very good methods for mixing the flash I'm afraid. I'm very lucky to have never had an accident. The only good thing I can say about the way I used to make them was that they were usually only about a gram. Now I am trying to develop pure pyro skills, making shells and whatnot. I really regret that I didn't just start out with pure pyro, I would be a lot farther along now if I would have. Just stick with the pyro and stay away from salutes and you will be much happier.

[mormanman]

so i got a question whats next i made a few smoke bombs and i'm working some bp and after that make some quick match fuse and another thing how do you make quick match and is it even a good fuse if not can you point me in the right direction or say look on the forum but thank but just tell me what the next step up is but thanks for the help i'll stay away from that stuff for quite a while i had ideas of making it and it completly changed thank alot i don't want to be deaf/blind/dead thanks

[deadman]

Well there are plenty of tutorials on making quickmatch and quickmatch variants out there so I'll let you look. If you figure out the basic concept you do not need a tutorial for how to make it.

 

As for the next step...I always loved making BP ingredient toys. Such as small fountains with extra charcoal or powdered metals. After fountains are down. Try a rocket, or if you prefer a tourbilion w/o report. Another great thing to learn after your BP is dependable is black match. Then quickmatch. After you have QM you can make tourbillions w/ report.

 

Then come stars. With stars come star mines. Then come colored stars and colored star mines. Then comes rocket headers. Or if you haven't touched rockets yet, rockets. Then comes aerial effects.

 

If sparklers or waterfalls catch your fancy, throw those in there somewhere. This is NOT the exact order you need to go, but a general idea of how most do. If you noticed none of my suggestions required flash. After you start making shells, you may want them to break harder, and then maybe a bottom shot. Or a rocket with salute finish. That is when flash and whistle mix come into play. Much farther down the road.

[ewest]

deadman's right, that a pretty good logical order. I learned it sort of in this order (notice how far down flash is)

 

smoke bombs

black powder

black match

quick match

fountain

black powder rocket

black powder stinger rocket

small aerial mortars (using effect fuse)

small cakes using above aerial mortars

whistle rockets

stars, cut

stars, pumped

rocket header

flash headers

stars, rolled

shells

[weknowpyro]

This is just my point of view with that list. I think making stars should come way before rockets i.e. for starmines or for comets (something simple).

Whistle rockets should be pretty far down as most newbies will find it alot easier to make small 1" shells with effects fuse, then manufacturing whistle mix and making the rockets. Whch can be just as dangerous as flash in some cases.

[Mumbles]

I agree. I'd move stars up between BP rocket, and small aerial mortar. I personally cut stars first, but theres no reason you couldn't pump them first. It may actually be easier, though more time consuming to pump first. Pumping uses a relatively constant amount of moisture, so the guess work of getting it wet right is removed. The proper wetting is one of the hardest things to get right. It's hard to describe to someone else, as every comp is different.

[deadman]

I personally pumped before I cut. I found it much easier to get a uniform star. I also had a LOT of trouble finding the right moisture when I first started stars. Especially charcoal stars. I made fountains and ground spinners before I started with stars. The "tourbillion" is something that is very easy for someone new to make with very inexpensive ingredients.