Just heard on the TV about the attacks in Brussels

[stix]

Very sad for the families of the people that were killed.

 

Another attack against people that believe in "freedom" of mind. That freedom of mind will win out in the end, I hope.

[lloyd]

Yep. I have a CAM friend there in Belgium, and it's such a small country that you can drive 40km in one direction, and be in another country -- so I was concerned for him.

 

He and his are OK, thankfully.

 

Lloyd

[zan89]

We can just get use to it, bomb attacks are now happening at least 2 in a week. Maybe you dont hear for all. But i can tell you.

Our Merkel friend made a huge mistake inviting refuges to EU!!

[taiwanluthiers]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/22/opinions/brussels-attack-challenges-the-west-ghitis/index.html

 

Some guy writes on CNN basically saying "this kind of stuff don't happen in the Middle East because they are more repressive"..

 

what??

[Seymour]

It's always a bad and weird feeling hearing about these things. We all have explosives. We make them. We love all kinds of things about them; the art, the science, showing friends, that sweet sweet smoke, and just researching new effects and compositions, expanding the pool of human knowledge.

 

I guess I'm coming from a selfish angle, because of course the main sympathies are with the victims and the families, but as an explosives enthusiast, bombing people feels like such a betrayal of what we do.

 

We put so much in to safety for ourselves and those around us. An accident which hurts other people is our absolute worst case disaster and then some very angry people out there aim to create that and not by accident. Whatever it is that makes someone, who I'm sure was not born to kill, turn in to a suicide bomber must be terrible. The act of doing this to kill other people is much more terrible.

 

I feel that the glimmer of hope is that while there are many terrorists, we all know how easy it is to make a deadly device, and I'm glad that so many people who want to can't figure it out, and that so few people actually do it, relatively speaking. The media hypes it up but I'm sure we all know driving a car is more dangerous in Europe and America. I'm not sure if it's the same in Iraq, Afghanistn, Syria or Libya though...

 

As terrible as the terrorism in Europe is, it's happening so much more in the middle east. If Europe's getting two bombings a week, the Middle East is getting at least two bombings a day, with almost all countries targeted.

 

I have no idea what is up with that reporter.

 

I feel so much for the victims of this and other attacks, and for all the Muslims, and Arab Christians, and other Middle easterners who are themselves victims of both extremist groups on one side, and islamaphobic discrimination on the other (even if they're Christian, Druze, Jewish or Yazidi but are seen as muslims by those who don't know not all muslims are arabs and not all arabs are muslims).

[calebkessinger]

We don't make explosives.

We make fireworks.

bad deal over there.. bad deal here, bad deal that their is a group of people that Hate how the rest of the world lives and choose to terrorize everyone.

[mikeee]

The sad part is "Terrorism" has magically turned into a money making enterprise with all of the players

involved with these political strategies.

For several decades now terrorism has created millions of "Refuges" that have been exported to numerous

industrialized countries around the world. An endless supply of cheap labor for these countries, and now many

of these countries are in dire financial trouble with dwindling job prospects for many of their own citizens. At the same

time these same countries are outsourcing jobs to 3rd world countries as fast as they can sign the contracts. With

most of these corporations moving off-shore and not paying their share of taxes but still selling their goods into

these countries with no tariffs (free trade), the future looks more like a ponzi scheme each day.

I find it somewhat troubling that these terrorist attacks never target a political, military or government targets, but usually

target innocent populations in these countries. If I wanted to make a political statement I would target a political leader

to get everyone's attention, not innocent people.

[Fulmen]

If I wanted to make a political statement

 

I don't think that's their goal. I suspect the real goal is to fuel the hate against the immigrants and muslims in Europe as this will inevitably increase recruitment into their radical movement.

[Andres1511]

Hi everyone !

 

I'm from belgium, I was just taking the train to college when I heard about the attacks. My university is about 30 minutes from Brussels.
Everyone stayed calm, we just finished our lessons & went home. My dad didn't want me to take the train though, because there is at least one terrorist still on the run.
It's generally accepted that the arrest of Salah Abdeslam was the trigger for the attacks, but they would have happenned anyway. Almost everybody knows someone who was on the airport or close to the metro station, but nobody I know got hurt.

 

My dad had to go to Brussels for his work today, and yes he just went to Brussels. We won't give the terrorists what they want.

 

Let's be clear about the refugees, they have NOTHING to do with this. Ofcourse they have another way of life and another culture, but their homes got destroyed and it's just our moral obligation to help them. Right now our prisoners (yes, murders and rapist) have more comfort then the refugees. This is unacceptable. The real problem is the screening of the refugees, because yes, maybe 1 in every 1000 refugees has dark thougths, and the economic migrants. Economic migration to the EU is not allowed in general, and they are definitly not refugees.

[Oinikis]

I wouldn't agree with the statement "refugees have nothing to do with this". Some of the Paris attackers were registered refugees. I do not want say that all of them are bad people, but certainly some are, and we are not doing a good job at filtering them.

 

One thing which angers me is that majority of workers here earn 300 to 500 Euros a month. I personally worked with a shovel in trenches, laying cables, trimming grass, and all the dirty work for a month. I earned 300 Euros. Refugees are given 600 Euros a month, and are complaining it's too little.

 

Majority of them go to Europe seeking welfare, and have no intentions for work. Furthermore, they refuse to act like humans, and attack, steal and rape. Terrorist use this to transport their people to Europe. They are wearing us down, but still, we pay them more for for commiting atrocities, than we do for our workers. We are deliberately cucking ourselves. After all, that's how Hitler rose to power.

 

We should only supply them with food, housing, and put them to work, and deport one who refuse to. That should deter the bastards who seek stuff for free, and only people who are really fleeing from the war would seek help here. Because being given work is better than being shot at. And since this is Europe, the working conditions would be good.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Oinikis

[OldMarine]

I've found it strange that almost all of the "refugees" are fighting age muslim men.

Where are the women and children?

This is an invasion as outlined in their unholy play book plain and simple.

Qur’an 21:44 Do they see Us advancing, gradually reducing the land (in their control), curtailing its borders on all sides? It is they who will be overcome.

[Andres1511]

In Belgium, none of the refugees get money.
The only way some of them get cash is when they volunteer to go back to their homeland, and then they get 300 euros. What is indeed way too much, if you ask me.

We only supply them a roof above their head, food (mostly just bread, cheese and sausages, 3 times a day. This has indeed resulted in some complaints. I'm not going to say if I like this or not, because this is so extremely two sided.) and clothes where possible.

The statement that almost all refugees are fighting age muslim men is not true. Indeed, there are more "fighting age" moslim men than older men and woman, children. Not that much more though, we have a lot of families ! Young men are simply more capable of making the long journey, an older men wouldn't make it. Plus, the average life span in Syria was even before the war plus minus 55. What do you expect ? Sadly, the woman and children drown very easily when trying to make it to Europe... The fact you refer to them as "fighting age" makes me sidder, what's wrong with 'young men' ?

 

in Belgium, there are only two cases of rapes by refugees. Two times they raped another refugee, if this would even matter. There are on average 10 rapes a dag in Belgium. This is a disgusting number, but don't say all the refugees are rapists, thanks.

 

Some of the paris attackers where refugees yes, but the brains where born in Belgium of France...

 

It feels really awkward I have to defend people who flee from war. The economic migrants should be sent back, but we have to take care for the refugees now. But I admit, we do a pretty bad job in filtering them out.

 

The aim of these attacks is to spread hate, to polarize. This makes recruitement way easier for them. Don't do them this favor, we already lost so much good people.

If you're going to read the Qur'an literally, you're doing what they do btw. Don't go there.

[OldMarine]

This is no new phenomena. Muzzies have been making war on "infidels" since the fabrication of their religion of pieces.

Here's a summary of a letter from Thomas Jefferson and Adams to John Jay on dealings with the Pasha of Tripoli:

http://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-09-02-0315

 

Nothing new under the sun.

Edited March 23, 2016 by OldMarine

[Andres1511]

So have Christians, so have Asians. The US has been in wars abroad since 1776 too. Your argument doesn't make any sense.

Never blame a religion.

 

& if you wonder, I'm atheist. More specific, I study exact science, I look at facts.

[OldMarine]

The human psyche and behavior is no exact science.

Statistics of past and present events can be used to predict actions and reactions and those are agreeing with my point.

Most Cheerios do not contain rat turds just as most muzzies don't want you dead. How many rat turds are acceptable in your breakfast bowl?

 

To claim islam is simply a religion is fallacy. It is a dictatorial form of government that accepts the existence of no others.

Edited March 23, 2016 by OldMarine

[MrB]

Some guy writes on CNN basically saying "this kind of stuff don't happen in the Middle East because they are more repressive"..

 

Weird people write all sort of weird shit.

 

 

We don't make explosives.

We make fireworks.

 

If you ask the authorities over here, that's the same thing. Just owning (per)chlorates can get you tossed in jail, and stamped as a terrorist. They claim it to be precursors for high explosives. Nevermind that i ca go to the local paint-shop and buy all i need for TATP, which apparently is what they used this time around.

 

 

I wouldn't agree with the statement "refugees have nothing to do with this". Some of the Paris attackers were registered refugees. I do not want say that all of them are bad people, but certainly some are, and we are not doing a good job at filtering them.

 

Indeed. Official numbers say that here in Sweden we have 300 inhabitants that decided that they were going to join the fight, on the terrorists side. They went and joined ISIS as they are known here. there. What ever. Anyway. Out of these, every single one have committed treason, if you were to read the law, and apply it to them. On top of this, they are also known war offenders. Yet, again, from official numbers, 140 of them have returned to Sweden after being "warriors" for ISIS. And what does Sweden do? These are after all known war criminals, that have committed some of the worst crimes law specifies. Does Sweden stand them on a town square, and have them publicly executed? No. (I actually think that is a good thing, don't get me wrong) The Swedish government makes sure they get a place to live, a bit of regular income, freedom, and protection from other countries that wants to prosecute them for a number of different things. WTF? Even people who are all for "helping the needing" should be somewhat opposed to outright protecting warcriminals, terrorists, and so fourth... At this point i'm thinking about emigrating to an oppressed African nation, where life might suck, but people at least have some sensibility. The only warcriminals that are protected, are the ones oppressing the own people and such...

 

 

Majority of them go to Europe seeking welfare, and have no intentions for work. Furthermore, they refuse to act like humans, and attack, steal and rape. Terrorist use this to transport their people to Europe. They are wearing us down, but still, we pay them more for for commiting atrocities, than we do for our workers.

 

No intention to work... I could care less. If you are running away from war, you would much rather have stayed at home and worked, and have every intention to go back home, permanently, as soon as possible. Sure, come here, be a couch-potato, i don't even care if your an extremist islamist that have very strong opinions. Follow the rules of the law, add to that the rules of your belief that isn't in direct conflict with our law, and i'll be happy to support you for a number of years. Your life would be better if you decided to be a part of the society, but you are a refuge, i'll provide a tent, a couple of blankets, and 3 meals a day.

Remember... I'm living in Sweden. At my mothers side i'm second generation, grandma were german, and came here right after "the war". "My kind" of Swedes, the so called native population, will be a minority in a few years. I'm still willing to support someone that genuinely needs help, or that wants to move here and start a new life, being a part of Sweden.

 

 

It feels really awkward I have to defend people who flee from war. The economic migrants should be sent back, but we have to take care for the refugees now.

 

People fleeing war, needs help, and should get it. Economic migrants should be screened, and given pretty much the same rights anyone moving from country to country in EU has. Stay, make a life for your self. Your paying for it your self, and if you, in 3 months, cant show that you can sustain yourself and your family, of you go, back home with ya.

 

 

Never blame a religion.

 

Why not? In the name of a faith or another, people have done horrendous things to other people. At the top of the pyramid there is a few who stand to gain from the conflict, and they drive the religion in said direction. But it's still the faith of the people making the unspeakable actions that is the ultimate cause. The pope had the crusaders raid Turkey. They killed, pillaged, burnt and raped. All in the name of the one true God. Most of the people actually committing the atrocities had some faith, but were there for riches. But the people "back home" who made it all possible, were all about the faith.

Religion, is a way to control people. Some religions provide "better" means then others. I'd go as far as to say that remove all religions, and most wars would go away. There is still some struggle over resources, but the majority of the population just doesn't care enough to make war over something like oil-reserves, that isn't going to benefit them, regardless of what nation who "claims it".

 

 

To claim islam is simply a religion is fallacy. It is a dictatorial form of government that accepts the existence of no others.

 

True. But most people aren't extremist, and can wait for the end of time to come and punish the infidels. That's all right. Let them believe. I know there is no end of time, no apocalypse, and no life in the after life. That's ok to. Let me believe. Coz that is the irony of it all. We all know what is true. We might not agree on what is true, but we damn sure know what is true, our own belief, reins supreme.

B!

[Nessalco]

MrB and Andres, I truly appreciate the perspective and essentially unfiltered info you offer on what's going on in your part of the world. What we all tend to hear is distorted by the media lens, and I think it's essential we get information from primary sources.

 

Kevin

[Andres1511]

Glad to have you hear MrB, you made some really intresting remarks !

 

With the words 'never blame a religion' I meant we shouldn't blame all muslims for these attacks. The extremists are such a small part of the Islam... The average Muslim cares about feeding his kids and paying his bills as much as we do, not about punishing the infidels... So the normal Islam has rules much like Christianity. Help the poor, take care of your close ones, etc etc. You learn this in High School, or at least I did. You learn all the values from the main religions, and every religion has those who take it literally and want to go to war.

 

About the economic immegrants, your 3 month rule sounds good. I wish the Belgian goverment would actually use something like that. Now economic migration is totally forbidden.

 

My dear OldMarine, to follow you in your metaphore: You want all the Cheerios destroyed, because there might be a rat turd in one of the thousand packages ? No ofcourse not, you want to filter it out. Well, that's what we try.

[Seymour]

 

 

I've found it strange that almost all of the "refugees" are fighting age muslim men.

Where are the women and children?

 

 

I've certainly seen (admittedly on the news) many women and children.

 

I also know that it's quite common for refugee families to be tactical. For example in Lebanon there are so many people who have fled Dash and Al Nusra (and other) that there is literally nothing to support them. They're living in complete poverty, no work, little aid, and often living in crude shelters and tents though all kinds of weather, snow included, with no heating supplies and little food. People die there. There are so many refugees in Lebanon that they probably constitute the largest single group of people, more than Lebanese Christians, more than Lebanese Sunnis, Lebanese Shia, Lebanese Druze and so on.

 

The walk to Europe is dangerous and brutal. I am not saying the concerns about the massive and historic flood in to europe, and of course there is resistance along the way due to this.

 

However I understand the tactic of sending the family members most able to sleep outside in the rain, endure beatings, be less likely to be raped, and able to walk much of the distance from one continent to the other. This often means "fighting age males". The aim is to get to a country where they can get asylum, and also have a law allowing their family to legally move to join them, economy class on a passenger jet.

 

Obviously this is not everyone, because I know whole families make the trek. An of course militants will make up a small portion of the migrants, even though the Syrian passport found on the paris bomber was found to be a forged Syrian passport that are available in Greece (because if you're from Somalia or Yemen or Afghanistan a Syrian passport greatly increases their chance of asylum). While it certainly could have been bought by a militant from out of Europe, the Dash cell that did the attack could easily have traveled south to Greece to buy one to use to try to increase fear of refugees, and help create the divisions that get more recruits, and maybe ultimately a civil war in Europe.

 

However just because Jihadis are among the refugees, does not mean that without the refugees they'd stop. They are determined and often have significant resources, and I'm sure they can smuggle themselves in to fortress Europe, and besides, most attacks are radicalised (and probably discriminated by society) people deciding to do something unthinkably horrendous, or being brainwashed in to doing it.

 

I feel that the number of terrorists among the refugees exists but is exaggerated and intensely hyped.

 

I'm not saying I think I know how to solve the problems though... Radicalisation and mass murder are occurring on a shocking intensity in Europe, and even more in Africa and the Middle east.

[MrB]

About the economic immegrants, your 3 month rule sounds good. I wish the Belgian goverment would actually use something like that. Now economic migration is totally forbidden.

Well, that is actually the law regarding immigrants inside EU. And it's not even enforced there. The way immigrants from outside EU should be dealt with, again, according to the law, is that they should apply for asylum in the first EU nation they arrive to. Once they get citizenship, they are just as free to move inside EU as anyone else. With that in mind, there shouldn't be any refuges crossing Swedish borders, unless they come from Norway... Well, pretty much. However, that is not whats happening. The current events is a freaking joke.

 

 

I've certainly seen (admittedly on the news) many women and children.

As have i. I've also seen a bit of whats going on with "ensamkommande flyktingbarn". (underage refuges) A new reception center, (here they are known as "HVB hem" ) just outside of Stockholm has been declared "for females only". This since the rules regarding "HVB hem" means that the refuges are gender-separated. It made headlines in the newspaper, when the decision to make this new center a "females" one, but the politicians making the decision stod fast. this one was for females alone, since that would dictate what Stockholm could accept, and place. The reasoning behind wanting more females placed in the region was that someone had opened the books, and checked the statistics. Stockholm had at that point 144 "children" living in these reception centers. 3 were female. Not exactly equal, and you can blame the decision to make the next housing females only on one of two things. a Feministic initiative, demanding equal resources for both genders, or a racist based initiative, since there simply is no females needing quarters, so making it a females only effectively means they have free spots for accepting more refuges, but wont need to actually take care of any.

 

 

However I understand the tactic of sending the family members most able to sleep outside in the rain, endure beatings, be less likely to be raped, and able to walk much of the distance from one continent to the other. This often means "fighting age males". The aim is to get to a country where they can get asylum, and also have a law allowing their family to legally move to join them, economy class on a passenger jet.

 

That is part of it. Another part of it is that it's simply not those that are most in need of help that make it to another country. The family pools their resources, and send the sons of to a "better life" while their lesser worth sisters have to stay behind. The first makes sense, the second pretty much means they should be turned back home.

 

 

Obviously this is not everyone, because I know whole families make the trek.

 

I would say most of those who actually make it to Sweden, actually weren't refuges in the first place. This is the single reason why i think the "new" policy, collecting people in big reception camps in the outskirts of EU, or even outside, and get the people that suffer the most some help, and asylum, rather then as it has been... Only those that actually could afford it, got a chance to go to Sweden. On the other hand, i don't quite like whats going on in Turkey, and accepting Turkey in to EU, which is the ultimate "goal" of the current events, is just plain wrong. But then again EU is like a lot of other things. It's a somewhat good idea, but in practice it just sucks.

 

 

However just because Jihadis are among the refugees, does not mean that without the refugees they'd stop. They are determined and often have significant resources, and I'm sure they can smuggle themselves in to fortress Europe, and besides, most attacks are radicalised (and probably discriminated by society) people deciding to do something unthinkably horrendous, or being brainwashed in to doing it.

 

I feel that the number of terrorists among the refugees exists but is exaggerated and intensely hyped.

 

Jihadists come to Sweden. Get asylum, and then use their passports to travel to other parts of the world to blow shit, and people, up. Worst part is, There is so much surveillance and analyzing of communications that the security forces, and the po po police knows pretty well who is, and who isn't a jihadist preparing to leave for "somewhere else". But since being a jihadist isn't considered a crime here, they just ignore it, and they can't even share the information with other nations security, police, and secret services. This since the jihadist isn't actually a criminal at this point, according to Swedish law, so, volunteering information on them would be illegal. However, if the same agencies were to ASK for information on a jihadist, yet not having committed a crime, Swedish forces would be allowed to hand over all they know.

And about the number of terrorists among the refuges... I find it likely that few are there, and it's far between them. On the other hand... Sweden took in something on the order of 300.000 refuges last year. Not all will get asylum, a lot of them will get a limited time asylum, and so on. These people now create news on a daily basis. Why? Well, it turns out they brought the war with them, and now seam intent on killing each other where ever they are temporary located so that they can be processed. (It's a freaking shame that people still are waiting to be processed, but then again 300.000 persons applying for asylum takes some administrating efforts i suppose...) Cops have to respond to acts of violence where these people have been given temporary accommodations. It's a shitty way of life, more or less like living for weeks, months even, in the cheapest hotel one could find, and with the uncertainty of what the future holds above your head all the time, so i can see why tempers would be high, but com on. Not a day goes past without a big fight, where 10-20 persons have been involved, or someone gets killed, either by blunt force trauma, or knife stabbings, from behind. That is not "high temper" that is murder, plain and simple. After which nobody talks, and no evidence can be collected, since everyone covers it up. In the end, everyone knows someone there killed someone, but they don't know who, so he might very well be getting asylum, instead of getting prosecuted, jailed, and then sent "back home".

 

Bleh... Anyway, the best bit is that Sweden has a crazy high rate of these "underage refuges" that lack any sort of paper, and, plain to see, have been shaving for years. There is no accepted way to "test" for age, so if you threw your papers away, you can claim what ever age you want, and being underage pretty much means your getting asylum, so go figure... Oddly enough, records back over the years show that these people often miraculously grow a couple of years older once they asylum, and have become citizens for a year or so.Suddenly they have old papers to prove their age, can request money for drivers licenses, trips back home to "see the family and relatives" and nobody cares... I dunno. I'm split. People that need help, should get it. But everywhere i look, i mostly see people that don't really need help. I guess Sweden is simply to far away from those that really need the help, so most of what we get, is people that just wants a free meal ticket, and that never really had it that bad in the first place.

Call me a cynical b-terd, i can deal with that to.

B!

[Andres1511]

MrB, what I learned in high school (don't blame me if I'm wrong, I never dubbel checked this and my teacher wasn't really smart) is that economic migration from outside the EU to inside the EU is forbidden, but EU citizens can migrate free inside the EU. Refugees should ask asylum in the first EU nation where they arrive.

 

Now clearly, the countries where refugees arrive (Greece, Italy) aren't the most whealty countries.... Actually, in general, the more north you're heading, the wealthier the country almost...

So I understand why so many refugees want to go to Germany and Sweden and so on, but indeed, if you enter the EU you have to follow the EU laws as much as anybody else. "I'm a refugee" isn't an excuse, so please stay in your country of arrival. If you get asylum, you can go to any country you want. Pretty double sided again, because there are simply so much refugees those countries can't handle it.

 

I'm pretty shocked your laws regarding jihadi's are so soft, so weak. But then I remember, they were once like that in Belgium. But we've got the shooting in a museum a couple of years ago (an ISIS member started shooting in a jewish museum), what made the laws more strict. This time you'll see the same, police and secret service will get a lot more power (only against Jihadi's I hope,or I can forget my pyro...). Too bad there has to happen an attack before politicians realise this.

 

I'm afraid I have to give you a "you're right" on this one: " I guess Sweden is simply to far away from those that really need the help, so most of what we get, is people that just wants a free meal ticket, and that never really had it that bad in the first place.".

[stix]

Usually the common human instinct is to preserve your own life at all cost. If you have children, then the cost of your life becomes second.

 

I don't understand how these people are so willing to kill themselves and many other innocent people in the belief that their next life will be some sort of utopian paradise.

[Andres1511]

Brainwashing Stix. It's a very intresting subject, how the human brain works... The human brain is so extremely powerfull. Or should I say weak ? We can do things that go totally against the will to survive, and we are the only species that can do that. So intresting.

[mikeee]

What is really sad is many of the "terrorist" attacks over the decades end up being false flag

attacks perpetrated by other groups for political strategies that the public is never made aware of

until laws are passed and freedoms are lost forever.

 

There are several websites that list major attacks perpetrated over the decades and they list the

groups blamed and the groups that were finally found to be responsible after in depth investigation.

Too many governments are involved with these games willing to kill innocent people to force other

countries into there games of deception.

[stix]

What is really sad is many of the "terrorist" attacks over the decades end up being false flag

attacks perpetrated by other groups for political strategies that the public is never made aware of

until laws are passed and freedoms are lost forever.

 

There are several websites that list major attacks perpetrated over the decades and they list the

groups blamed and the groups that were finally found to be responsible after in depth investigation.

Too many governments are involved with these games willing to kill innocent people to force other

countries into there games of deception.

 

It can all be summed up by Donald Rumsfeld's classic "Unknown Unknowns" speech in 2002.

 

I get most of it, but then again, I'm not that smart. Although I reckon if you know about the 'Unknown Unknowns' it surely becomes a 'Known Unknown' and renders the Unknown Unknowns defunct? Unless of course you don't know - then you wouldn't.