The sometimes fatal cost of this hobby

[tentacles]

It could have been impact welding from the lead media bashing each other, also. I imagine the media weighed something like 200-300lbs for that size of batch, and more than like they were not mere 1/2-3/4" balls... if you drop lead onto things, if it hits right, it will actually weld itself to what it hit. Also, BP is known to be impact ignitable - it's not easy, but it can happen. With a batch this size, who knows how big the media were, and how far they were falling. More details would be very good to have.

[spitfire]

More details would be very good to have.

 

 

i'll get back to this detail later.

[FrankRizzo]

I've seen figures that said that BP was more sensitive to static when damp actually. I'll see if I can find the source of that.

 

I remember reading the same. IIRC, 4% was the magic number.

[Swede]

You guys are right, I do remember now reading about that. Maybe a heavier dampness would be appropriate despite the mess. Once separated from the media, the 10% (give or take) damp BP could go right into a press.

[Frozentech]

i'll get back to this detail later.

 

I have seen a U.S. Bureau of Mines study from the 1930's, that said BP was most susceptible to ignition from static at 6% moisture.

I'll be damned if I can find my copy of the paper though. Maybe I can find it again online.

[Adrigal1234]

I am a real green Newbee and after seeing this and all the articles and the Obituary I am doing nothing more until I have read every last bit of safety information on the entire forum. It is sad I think that his obituary mentions nothing of his obvious love of pyrotechnics. I am Just so glad I joined this fantastic forum.

[Juderunner]

Hello, I am new here (and new to the hobby), just introducing myself and wanted to ask a question of Dr Dudley. Thanks first, Dr Dudley for sharing that story. I have been lurking in rec.pyrotechnics for a while now and people there don't seem as willing to share mistakes (probably because other posters are very harsh and judgmental at times). It helps to hear stories like that, which are sober reminders about how dangerous can be (are) in this hobby.

 

I certainly did not know that a star could ignite simply by stepping on it. I haven't progressed yet to making stars, so me not knowing that isn't very significant since I know very little about stars. It (rightly) rattles me to realize that something as innocuous as stepping on a star could have such dire consequences. Your incredibly quick decision-making to leave, rather than try to put out the star or "fix" the situation is admirable. I have read about other people who had accidents who first tried to douse the star, or put out flames, which only ended up burning them worse. I have spent many night over the last few weeks going over my accident plan and trying to train myself to simply RUN when something bad happens, rather than sticking around to "fix" things... as is my nature. Figuring out which situations are "run" worthy, and which should be quickly addressed by using the water bucket, fire extinguisher or sand is something I am still learning/researching.

 

May I ask, what were the stars made of? Was it the prime that made them that sensitive? I realize this may be a dumb question that will be answered when I begin studying about star making... forgive me for my ignorance.

 

Anyway, thanks again for sharing that and giving me yet another reason to be VERY careful. I don't ever plan on making batches the size that you were making, but I realize that may be a very naive statement that all beginning pyros make, before they get the "fever" to do more and more.

 

Cheers to the group, I have had a lot of fun and learned much from reading and lurking here thus far. Thank you all for sharing.

[Yankie]

*SNIP*

 

May I ask, what were the stars made of? Was it the prime that made them that sensitive? I realize this may be a dumb question that will be answered when I begin studying about star making... forgive me for my ignorance.

 

*SNIP*

 

Welcome to the forum Juderunner, it is good to know that you are safety concious.

 

The star I beleive was chlorate based, which can be quite sensetive. If you stick to KNO3 based stars and KClO4 (not as safe as KNO3 but safer than chlorate) Then you should be right. You could hit a TT star (basic KNO3 based charcoal streamer) with a hammer and 9/10 times nothing would happen.

 

I don't ever plan on making batches the size that you were making, but I realize that may be a very naive statement that all beginning pyros make, before they get the "fever" to do more and more.

 

Haha you are right about that being naive, I said I would never make anything bigger than a 4", now I am planning to make some 6" shells this year

 

EDIT: I could have sworn I read it was a chlorate star somewhere, I may be thinking of a different article. But as tentacles describes below it was more than likely one of the chlorate or AP compositions.

Edited March 13, 2009 by Yankie

[tentacles]

I'm pretty sure that fellow never mentioned what formula or components were in that star. My suspicion it was a sensitive mix to start with - chlorate/sulfur, chlorate/trisulfide, an AP based strobe. Regardless, keep your explosives clear of the floor! It helps to have a CLEAN floor, as well, dirt = sand, and sand is a great friction sensitizer. Another great suggestion is to store your stuff properly, garbage bags on the floor of your shop is obviously a particularly poor choice. Buckets, heavy plastic tubs, metal boxes, etc. If you've got room, one of those steel "JOBOX" type toolboxes is a good place to use as a temporary storage or an indoor 'magazine'. Edited March 13, 2009 by tentacles

[FloraNuno]

Be careful whit what you all do ! I have hurt my self many times and never liked to go to the hospital.

[derekroolz]

well let this be a reminder to never make unpredictable chemicals or to ever skip a saftey step just to save some time in the proccess

[paradoxbox]

well let this be a reminder to never make unpredictable chemicals or to ever skip a saftey step just to save some time in the proccess

 

isn't the biggest reminder that you should have all your finished items stored somewhere safe??

 

put your finished fireworks somewhere safe! you ought to be able to have a fire in your working area and not worry about blowing up your house. bags full of black powder sitting next to a bag full of stars sitting next to a bunch of chemicals is just dumb. this isn't playdough we're talking about here! lock up your fireworks, put them under a fireproof blanket or put them in a safe or a cabinet, something, anything!

Edited August 15, 2009 by paradoxbox

[satoshi15]

put your finished fireworks somewhere safe! you ought to be able to have a fire in your working area and not worry about blowing up your house. bags full of black powder sitting next to a bag full of stars sitting next to a bunch of chemicals is just dumb. this isn't playdough we're talking about here! lock up your fireworks, put them under a fireproof blanket or put them in a safe or a cabinet, something, anything!

 

or you could make and use them on the spot, bypassing the need for storage

[derekroolz]

put your finished fireworks somewhere safe! you ought to be able to have a fire in your working area and not worry about blowing up your house. bags full of black powder sitting next to a bag full of stars sitting next to a bunch of chemicals is just dumb. this isn't playdough we're talking about here! lock up your fireworks, put them under a fireproof blanket or put them in a safe or a cabinet, something, anything!

 

 

or you could make and use them on the spot, bypassing the need for storage

 

 

exactly what i do...but storing fireworks without a license is illiegal

[Mumbles]

If they are in a magazine it's not illegal to store in it. You just can't transprort it off of the property. The law states something alon the lines of fireworks must be fired within a 24 hour period of manufacture or stored in a magazine the ATF would deem suitable. It just means that if inspected it would have to pass, not that it actually is approved.

[Ericz]

Make some stars ? Put them in an other room , clean ur work place and go on with making Bp or something , thats what i do i clean it evrytime i did something. Even when i make some tubes ! U might never know some kclo3 or S is on ur workplace u name it.

 

Just do 1 thing at a time , make a plan or something do it in steps from 1 till 100 so u dont make mistakes.

[a_bab]

Something like this must have went off in this case: http://www.pyrobin.com/files/ball%20mill%20008.jpg

 

It's all a matter of thinking ahead if you can "take it", I mean the worst case scenario:

-what if my batch of BP ignites NOW? Will I survive?

-what will happen besides getting really badly burned? Will the flash powder I made yesterday go off too? What about the 2 kg of TT stars? Will the long lasting pine sparks ignite everything on my property?

 

Think ahead.

[Ericz]

Just make sure , that u put evrything u already made very far from what u are making ! Thats not so hard right ? And clean ur work place and what he is doing if that is meal and u have little static sparks he is gone he would be burned very bad:( U can better make 10 batches of 50 gram then one of 500 gram no matter what it costs in time. Think ahead is smart yea u dont put ur homemade crackes next to ur batch new flash thats not good.

And if that is meal , he is wearing no fucking protection gear no anti static clothes no kevlar handgloves no nothing , thats just stupid and how many experience u got u still dont do that , i hope that thats only a C batch.

Good tips.

grtz.

Edited October 5, 2009 by Ericz

[NightHawkInLight]

...There is nothing wrong with what he is doing so far as I can tell. His mill barrel appears to be steel, unwise for the backyard, but acceptable if he has the room to keep it in a safe location. I have no idea what you mean by 'C batch'.

 

Making only 50 grams of BP at a time may be plenty for your purposes, but many, including myself, go through several kilograms worth of composition in a single shell. There are ways to use large amounts of composition safely. Kevlar gloves are not it. Cotton and leather are the most suitable. Synthetic clothing, kevlar included, is far more prone to static and will also melt to the wearer. It offers no fire protection.

[Richtee]

Just make sure , that u put evrything u already made very far from what u are making ! Thats not so hard right ? And clean ur work place and what he is doing if that is meal and u have little static sparks he is gone he would be burned very bad:( U can better make 10 batches of 50 gram then one of 500 gram no matter what it costs in time. Think ahead is smart yea u dont put ur homemade crackes next to ur batch new flash thats not good.

And if that is meal , he is wearing no fucking protection gear no anti static clothes no kevlar handgloves no nothing , thats just stupid and how many experience u got u still dont do that , i hope that thats only a C batch.

Good tips.

grtz.

Eric errr...z Please be sure of your information and it's quality before broadcasting it to folks who apparently know less than you. And English might help. Hope you never have to pull melted Kevlar out of your flesh.

Edited October 5, 2009 by Richtee

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

IF you mill blackpowder (all ingredients together), let the mill cool for a while before opening and sieving out your media, that's the most risky part. Because of the static electricity. Hot and cold air don't go well together.

 

Another option is milling KNO3 and sulfur, and charcoal and sulfur separately. And mill them for a view minutes together.

[Mumbles]

He most certainly is wearing anti-static clothing. That t-shirt is cotton, pants appear to be demin. I speak from experience that khaki pants are not a smart decision though. I also wouldn't be wearing that watch.

 

I do believe that jar is HDPE or plastic of some sort. If you look at the bottom, there are several screws sticking out, which are commonly sunk into the thick walls of large diameter pipe to serve as anchors. There are a pile of washers and wing nuts on the table if you zoom in.

[NightHawkInLight]

He most certainly is wearing anti-static clothing. That t-shirt is cotton, pants appear to be demin. I speak from experience that khaki pants are not a smart decision though. I also wouldn't be wearing that watch.

 

I do believe that jar is HDPE or plastic of some sort. If you look at the bottom, there are several screws sticking out, which are commonly sunk into the thick walls of large diameter pipe to serve as anchors. There are a pile of washers and wing nuts on the table if you zoom in.

The bolts are what led me to assume it was a steel barrel. I suppose I have also seen that used on HDPE. A little ironic concerning the topic, but my first thought when I saw that image was 'wow, I would love having that mill'

[a_bab]

No matter what, with such an amount of meal he would have not survived on ignition due to the burns. It looks like there are at least 2 kgs of it in that batch.

[Ericz]

I didnt know that of kevlar , thought it also proteced against heat my bad.

Anyway if those clothes are non static you still have no singel protection i would were some protection alwase better then a naked skin:S.

My opinion. And i know in some shells you use much bp but still i never would do this too much for me.

C = charcoal , at least i thought so.

charcoal batch

I would never make so many meal , rather do much little batches but thats my opinion ! Arent there any anti fire gloves ?

>>> Eric errr...z Please be sure of your information and it's quality before broadcasting it to folks who apparently know less than you. And English might help. Hope you never have to pull melted Kevlar out of your flesh.

I know , have to work on my english but ill do that soon i think. And how about wet milling ? Isnt that safer ? Or is it very hard to drie the meal afterwards.

grtz

Edited October 6, 2009 by Ericz