Lejonpyro Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Hello Sometimes I feel like my granulated BP is so much faster than my BP coated rice hulls. My breaks (4") have all been a bit too soft. I understand that it depends on the taping and booster, but now to my question. If I took the same amount of BP, by weight, of both granulated BP and coated rice hulls in two different shells, would they perform equally in a shell break? To make up for the empty space I would just mix the granules with something like non-coated rice hulls or rice puffs to fill the shell. I can imagine the break wont be as symmetrical with granules as break, but other than that, is there any reason not to try? I saw another thread with the same topic but it was from 4 years ago and the discussion was way off-topic.
Nessalco Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 In 3 and 4 inch shells, I use alcohol-granulated BP, with no other filler. Works fine, and I can create harder or softer breaks using different powders - sumac BP, for example, gives a very hard break without any booster, willow a bit softer, hardwoods softer still. I can't speak to the effectiveness vs MCRH. Kevin
lloyd Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Coated hulls, alone, are usually insufficient to burst 3" and 4" shells. Even grained powder is slightly on the weak side, and benefits from some 'boosting'. L
Lejonpyro Posted December 28, 2015 Author Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) In 3 and 4 inch shells, I use alcohol-granulated BP, with no other filler. Works fine, and I can create harder or softer breaks using different powders - sumac BP, for example, gives a very hard break without any booster, willow a bit softer, hardwoods softer still. I can't speak to the effectiveness vs MCRH. Kevin I'm using Vineyard charcoal and the bp granules work really well as lift, never tried them as break yet. Got to try it next time. Coated hulls, alone, are usually insufficient to burst 3" and 4" shells. Even grained powder is slightly on the weak side, and benefits from some 'boosting'. L Alright, I've been using whistle mix as booster before, with bp coated rice hulls. The whistle was just 70 KClO4 and 30 potassium benzoate but I'd rather not have to deal with it as it has to be really well mixed and away from all moisture. I'll try BP granules in a 4" the next time. If it is still too weak or use way too much powder I'll try perchlorate+ dark al flash booster. Edited December 28, 2015 by Lejonpyro
Stef727 Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 In 3 and 4 inch shells, I use alcohol-granulated BP, with no other filler. Works fine, and I can create harder or softer breaks using different powders - sumac BP, for example, gives a very hard break without any booster, willow a bit softer, hardwoods softer still. I can't speak to the effectiveness vs MCRH. KevinWhat is sumac BP?? never heard of it.
lloyd Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) It's BP with charcoal made from the Sumac tree's wood. 'Very fast and also pretty energetic.For BP charcoals, light, fast-growing woods seem to make the fastest powder, and Sumac is both light and fast-growing (and with very little bark or silica inclusions). Lloyd Edited December 28, 2015 by lloyd
Nessalco Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 What Lloyd said. Sumac is a weed shrub/tree here in the northern US, which grows very fast and is very persistent in growing. If you cut it down in the fall, the shoots will be head tall or better by the next summer. Some people can't handle it because of a skin reaction to the sap, and making it into charcoal releases some truly noxious, irritating fumes. It makes very fast BP - When I ram spolettes with willow BP, I get a burn time of just under 3 seconds per inch. I tried a dozen or so with sumac BP, and they burned at just over 2 seconds per inch. Very fast stuff, which works great for breaking small ball shells. Kevin
lloyd Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 IF you have the species called "Staghorn Sumac", it is very NON-toxic, both when handling it and when charring it. In fact, a perfectly-good "pink lemonade" may be made from it's fruit. However, other Sumacs can vary in toxicity (urushiol content -- and MANY plants contain it in very small amounts). If you happen upon "Poison Sumac" (that isn't really a sumac, anyway), all bets are off! The chemical agent urushiol is the same oily, toxic substance found in poison ivy and poison oak. Breathing the smoke can be fatal to a person sensitive to the agent. Get a pictorial guide to trees and shrubs in your area before you start to indiscriminately cut wood you don't know about! Lloyd 1
Nessalco Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Yep, staghorn is the species I char, and I do sometimes make tea from the berries - lots of vitamin C. I agree the smoke is non-toxic, but it is very irritating, leaving a burning sensation in your throat and nostrils for several hours. Don't ask how I know I now only char the stuff in a retort. The noxious fumes seem to burn off better, but I still try to keep my distance from the burn. Kevin
BlueComet24 Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 I'd like to point out that hardwoods are not the same as hard woods (note the space). Hardwoods are any woods from angiosperm trees, so any flowering tree. They are often hard, but are sometimes soft (e.g. balsa). Softwoods are woods from gymnosperms (i.e. conifers) and are often soft, but are sometimes hard. Willow and sumac are hardwoods.I'd be interested in comparing the best BP charcoal woods' characteristics in the Wood Database (http://www.wood-database.com). Speaking of that website, they have a page on irritating/toxic woods: http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-allergies-and-toxicity/It states that sumac is irritating to the skin and the bark may cause blisters. I certainly would avoid inhaling the fumes from it. Also, I'd advise anyone against using yew for charcoal for safety reasons.
Mumbles Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 BlueComet, I'm not sure if you've ever seen Danny Creagan's website, but it has a nice charcoal for BP database. http://wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/charcoal_tests.html There is also good information in Ian von Maltitz's book Black Powder Manufacturing, Testing, and Optimization (commonly called BPTMO, published in 2003 not 1997), and also an article in Pyrotechnica XVII by Rodger O'Neill. Kevin, have you ever weighed the amount of BP in the spolettes you've tested? I'm more curious than anything. I've always kind of wondered if these faster powders in spolettes were due to a truly faster powder, or if it might be related to a lower/higher density.
Nessalco Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Kevin, have you ever weighed the amount of BP in the spolettes you've tested? I'm more curious than anything. I've always kind of wondered if these faster powders in spolettes were due to a truly faster powder, or if it might be related to a lower/higher density. I did not. I made them using the same techniques as the willow spolettes, but that's the best I can do. Kevin
lloyd Posted December 28, 2015 Posted December 28, 2015 Mumbles,That's a good question. Without a doubt, a "similarly-fast" powder at a lower density will make for a faster burn. The simple proof would be to weigh the loads. It should be possible to ram most-any powder to the same density with some effort and attention to the increment heights -- but it would be necessary to dispense the same mass of powder for each increment, rather than the same volume. Lloyd
BlueComet24 Posted December 29, 2015 Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) Mumbles, I have that page bookmarked and use it to select woods for charcoal. Based on that list, I think I'm lucky to live where I do. I was thinking of comparing densities, hardness, etc. of fast charcoal woods to be able to estimate how an untested charcoal would perform based on its characteristics. Edited December 29, 2015 by BlueComet24
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