Some questions regarding AN / AL (For use as reactive shooting targets)

[Mumbles]

You'll want to do things actually by mass. I think you're undershooting the amount of aluminum you're adding. There is no way 1/2 teaspoon weighs 11.33g. You're probably adding closer to 3g if that volume measurement is correct.

[OldMarine]

Did you buy pure AN or some cold packs? Many of those use urea now and it doesn't work. Make sure your AN is very dry and a 95/5 mix with AL should work with a high velocity round.

[ThatAKguy]

Did you buy pure AN or some cold packs? Many of those use urea now and it doesn't work. Make sure your AN is very dry and a 95/5 mix with AL should work with a high velocity round.

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

It's pure AL powder purchased in a 1lb container, from amazon. I'll have to look up the specific bottle info when I get a chance later this evening.

 

You're probably correct on the weight to volume being incorrect. I used an online calculator since my scale only worked in Oz and tenth of ounce.. it showed 0.2 Oz for each teaspoon... so did the math from there.

[Mumbles]

That is actually about what I expected, though I think you might have made a minor math mistake. If 1tsp is 0.2oz, that is 7.6g. 1/2 tsp should be 3.8g. When you're on the bottom end of your scale's resolution, it's hard to get an accurate value. If you want to get a bit closer, I'd try adding several tsp to a bowl or something, and dividing from there.

[otto]

When you're on the bottom end of your scale's resolution, it's hard to get an accurate value. If you want to get a bit closer, I'd try adding several tsp to a bowl or something, and dividing from there.

Exactly correct. Additionally the same caveat applies at the other extreme, the maximum capacity of your weighing device. In fact the best accuracy for scales/load cells is near the middle. Depending on your devices' capacity it might be most accurate if you put the whole bag on, dip out your volume and note that difference.

 

If you're using a spring kitchen scale your accuracy will not be that great anyway. Better to get a small electronic gram scale, resolution to the tenth of a gram would be all you ever need. I got one for about $25 on Amazon, checked against my triple beam and it is surprisingly good throughout the range. Remember if you're off by a tenth of an ounce that's almost 3 grams.......

[ThatAKguy]

Thanks both of you. I'll get to the range tomorrow or Thursday and test another batch.

 

I saw one post sawing 2700fps for reaction... this seems a little high, or is that normal?

 

I'm using a 7.62x51 should be about 2,400 from my 14" barrel. Would this create any issue?

 

 

Any comment/suggestions on my attempts to use zip locks?

[OldMarine]

I add about 10% sponge titanium to mine if it,s just in a baggie. I've been told but can't prove that it adds a friction and impact point that aids ignition in a flexible package. I make hollow clay targets using snack size ziplocks dipped in plaster leaving them open on one end.

[pyrojig]

I believe that your mixing the AN reactive target comp with flash's sensitivities. I havent seen that being a issue, if not it would be a bonus , as sometimes AN targets can fail if winged or not mixed well. I have heard some folks just adding Ti on top after shake mixing the targets , and using the Ti as a igniter for fuels / fireballs effects .

[ThatAKguy]

Thanks for the tips everybody.

 

I bought a better scale and measured out 240g then added 14g (2g extra for good measure)..

 

 

The results were impressive to say the least. Ive been getting emails complaing about using larger than market size charges all day!! (Mostly from neighbors complaining to other range officers).

 

 

Thanks again, I can't stop smiling!

[3LEGGEDSQUIRREL]

I have over 40 lbs of Tannerite on hand. The regular AN/AL mix by weight is 1lb. AN and 7g Dark AL. I shoot all mine with a .17HMR. I have shot a few with my SCAR 17. I usually add some bright flake with mine after I get it mixed. I haven't added Ti or S to my mixes but I have ground down the AN prills in a blender before mixing,(the report from this seems to be louder). I also don't use the plastic mix containers supplied with the Tannerite because of a couple of "no reaction" shots with the .17. I'm thinking it may have slowed the bullet down below the threshold. I use regular ziplock bags. I have shot up to 4lbs at a time. Never shoot Tannerite around anything that could be considered shrapnel, unless your using a HCR ChevyTac 375 from 2 miles away. Then its fine. Using a lot of glowstick liquid in a container above the Tannerite against a tree line at night is fun with NVG's

[ThatAKguy]

Hello again.

 

Having issues getting reaction from 762x39 ammo. And even a difficulty with 762 x54r

 

I bought some AL from Alpha Chemical is 30u and looks the same as the 300 mesh used before that I got great reaction from the 308 win rounds.

 

My recipe has been 240g AN -13g of AL.

 

But this time I could get no reaction from the two specified round (except once).. the impacts caused the mixture to feel slightly damp and granulated.

 

ANY suggestions on senetizing it to below 2000fps? I've read that copperoxide is the way to go, but also that can make it too sensitive. I'm tring to have some fun and keep my fingers...

 

 

Thanks in advance.

[FlaMtnBkr]

I've never heard of copper oxide to sensitize AN. You can make an impact sensitive copper oxide thermite but that is different.

 

Dry your AN first. You will be pleasantly surprised and not only because it becomes reactive.

[ThatAKguy]

I've never heard of copper oxide to sensitize AN. You can make an impact sensitive copper oxide thermite but that is different.

 

Dry your AN first. You will be pleasantly surprised and not only because it becomes reactive.

You're correct. I was thinking of the 22lr sensitive Cu/AL thermite.

 

 

So now I've found what I was looking for, is a KCIO4 & bright al....

 

My question is, considering I wont be mixing any of the AN until on site, is it safe / legal to have the KCIO & AL premixed, and are there any special safety precautions for handling and storage?

[taiwanluthiers]

No, don't mix Perchlorate and aluminum beforehand, because you just made flash powder.

[ThatAKguy]

No, don't mix Perchlorate and aluminum beforehand, because you just made flash powder.

I'm in the USA, Texas to be exact.

 

I've been dredging the ATF website and all I can find pertaining to flash powder describes the quantity allowed for consumers grade fireworks as "not more than 130mg".

 

But I'm not making fireworks. I'm making binary. Is flash powder itself regulated? I'm looking for that specific regulation.

 

Also will I need anti static bags for mixing? I know how potent AN/AL is and I don't want to be on the wrong end of that boom.

 

At the very least, could anybody direct me to the ATF regulation for the flash alone?

[lloyd]

AKguy,

If you make mixed flash powder in any quantity, you're "manufacturing explosives". You're allowed to do that (in some states) under federal law, so long as you 1) have a license, or 2) lacking a license, do not transport the material off your property.

 

Binary explosives are - eh - difficult to qualify. Technically, you're 'manufacturing' as soon as you shake the container to mix it. But if you don't do that until you're ready to use it, it's rather-loosely enforced.

 

LLoyd

[ThatAKguy]

AKguy,

If you make mixed flash powder in any quantity, you're "manufacturing explosives". You're allowed to do that (in some states) under federal law, so long as you 1) have a license, or 2) lacking a license, do not transport the material off your property.

 

Binary explosives are - eh - difficult to qualify. Technically, you're 'manufacturing' as soon as you shake the container to mix it. But if you don't do that until you're ready to use it, it's rather-loosely enforced.

 

LLoyd

Thanks for the clarification.

So flash IS an explosive itself. Got it.

 

I work for an SOT3 FFL and we do demo shoots for some of our clients. Buying commercial packages is pretty cost prohibitive for a 12 hour day. So being able to mix some on site for "easter eggs" for clients to find, would add some great appeal to our shoots.

 

Would I be safe to assume I could travel with the three components separatly package in pre measured quantities for use on site? This should be no different than any other binary, correct?

 

Also I'm curious if the use of anti static bags are necessary? (Probably worth the extra caution.)

 

And incase your wondering no the SOT3 doesn't provide us legal protection as an FEL... we can only build and travel with machine guns.

Edited August 7, 2016 by ThatAKguy

[lloyd]

AK,

"Would I be safe to assume I could travel with the three components separatly package in pre measured quantities for use on site?"

 

Yes, you may. The components are not explosive, and unless outlawed (like, say, in NY), aren't restricted.

"Also I'm curious if the use of anti static bags are necessary? (Probably worth the extra caution.)"

 

ABSOLUTELY. Actually, in the 'biz', we use static-dissipative HDPE bottles, with the biggest of the set large enough to hold the entire mix with about a 50-60% fill. You pour in the other bottles into the big'n, and cap it. Then shake and dispense. We generally select bottles such that the largest bottle's neck will accommodate the entire 'nozzle' of the smaller bottles, so there's no pouring, just insert-and-dump.

 

Bags are fraught with difficulties, not the least of which is that they're almost impossible to empty completely, and if they're 'zip-loc' types, the zipper can provide a pinch-point that might be filled with mixed comp.

 

LLoyd

Edited August 7, 2016 by lloyd

[FlaMtnBkr]

What formula are you thinking about trying? You said 3 components so curious what you are thinking about exactly?

 

If you are using high velocity rifle rounds then you should just stick with AN/AL. You may also want to think about what liability is involved with clients being around and shooting home made explosives. And when you say Easter eggs that makes me think you are talking about hiding explosives behind targets. The last place you want an explosive is behind something because it will blow the something forward towards the shooter.

 

As expensive as ammo is, especially in a full auto gun, over 12 hours of shooting is going to be exponentially more expensive than a case or two of commercial exploding targets.

[ThatAKguy]

What formula are you thinking about trying? You said 3 components so curious what you are thinking about exactly?

 

If you are using high velocity rifle rounds then you should just stick with AN/AL. You may also want to think about what liability is involved with clients being around and shooting home made explosives. And when you say Easter eggs that makes me think you are talking about hiding explosives behind targets. The last place you want an explosive is behind something because it will blow the something forward towards the shooter.

 

As expensive as ammo is, especially in a full auto gun, over 12 hours of shooting is going to be exponentially more expensive than a case or two of commercial exploding

Edited August 9, 2016 by ThatAKguy

[NeighborJ]

Cu oxide is not a good idea, if you want color put it in a bag of colored chalk.

Sorry thought I was responding to something on first page. Can this be deleted.

Edited August 8, 2016 by NeighborJ

[Uarbor]

Has anyone purchased anything from a website called ammonium nitrate for sale.com? They seem to have some good deals on binary Targets. I just wanted to see if they are legit.