wizard7611 Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Perfect for charcoal (this was the best wood I could find for charcoal according to http://wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/charcoal_tests.html): http://i.imgur.com/ZmuuB7A.png
OldMarine Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) What part of the country are you located? There's a pile of ERC on a construction site near me that's over 50'tall and 100' across they're going to torch and put the giant burn fan on. Lebanon Tn is known as the "Cedar City" both for the trees and the obvious biblical reference. I would think the Cedar pet bedding would be a better deal. Exact same wood just shredded. I run mine through the chipper to make retorting easier. Edited November 23, 2015 by OldMarine
wizard7611 Posted November 23, 2015 Author Posted November 23, 2015 What part of the country are you located? There's a pile of ERC on a construction site near me that's over 50'tall and 100' across they're going to torch and put the giant burn fan on. Lebanon Tn is known as the "Cedar City" both for the trees and the obvious biblical reference. I would think the Cedar pet bedding would be a better deal. Exact same wood just shredded. I run mine through the chipper to make retorting easier.Midwestern United States, Nebraska.
wizard7611 Posted November 23, 2015 Author Posted November 23, 2015 What part of the country are you located? There's a pile of ERC on a construction site near me that's over 50'tall and 100' across they're going to torch and put the giant burn fan on. Lebanon Tn is known as the "Cedar City" both for the trees and the obvious biblical reference. I would think the Cedar pet bedding would be a better deal. Exact same wood just shredded. I run mine through the chipper to make retorting easier.I didn't know they sold that. Thanks!
Mumbles Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 The pet bedding is great stuff. Have you looked into joining a local club? Midlands and Iowa Pyro Association should both operate in your area. Honestly, joining a club is the best thing I ever did for advancing my pyro skills.
wizard7611 Posted November 23, 2015 Author Posted November 23, 2015 The pet bedding is great stuff. Have you looked into joining a local club? Midlands and Iowa Pyro Association should both operate in your area. Honestly, joining a club is the best thing I ever did for advancing my pyro skills. I've looked into it, but wanted to start off with the proper steps on making black powder as well as granulating it.
Sparx88 Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Mumbles is right. But I have to say that when I first came here I did'nt know how to make BP except for what I read or watched but never actually did it. And since getting commercial anymore around me involved a 100 mile round trip...it was a no brainer. So when you get your stuff collected and start making it, and have that eureka moment when it all comes together and works well...(I know cliche).. the sky is the limit. Edited November 23, 2015 by Sparx88
wizard7611 Posted November 23, 2015 Author Posted November 23, 2015 Mumbles is right. But I have to say that when I first came here I did'nt know how to make BP except for what I read or watched but never actually did it. And since getting commercial anymore around me involved a 100 mile round trip...it was a no brainer. So when you get your stuff collected and start making it, and have that eureka moment when it all comes together and works well...(I know cliche).. the sky is the limit.I am very anxious to try this out. "The sky is the limit.", false, that's why we have astronauts, lol. 1
wizard7611 Posted November 23, 2015 Author Posted November 23, 2015 What part of the country are you located? There's a pile of ERC on a construction site near me that's over 50'tall and 100' across they're going to torch and put the giant burn fan on. Lebanon Tn is known as the "Cedar City" both for the trees and the obvious biblical reference. I would think the Cedar pet bedding would be a better deal. Exact same wood just shredded. I run mine through the chipper to make retorting easier. Hey, what is your method for cooking these chips of wood?
OldMarine Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 I use a 5 gallon metal bucket for a retort. I haven't tried the TLUD method yet but many on this forum swear by it.
wizard7611 Posted November 25, 2015 Author Posted November 25, 2015 I use a 5 gallon metal bucket for a retort. I haven't tried the TLUD method yet but many on this forum swear by it.Do you put that 5 gallon bucket inside a 50 gallon barrel? This was exactly what I was thinking of doing.
OldMarine Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 I have a fire pit that I love to use in cooler weather. When I have a fire going I just put the bucket in with a few holes punched in the lid. I rotate it so it heats evenly and the wood gets stirred around. Once it's no longer blowing smoke out the holes I pull it out and slap an un-perforated lid on it until it's cool. I've mainly used it to make charcoal for cooking until I got the firework bug. I'm still working on getting decent cedar charcoal but I've got tons to mess with. 1
Col Posted November 25, 2015 Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) I find the traditional retort method best when you need the absolute maximum return from the wood, you can use cheap or scrap wood to generate the heat. For pine charcoal for stars, sparky wheel drivers etc i prefer the tlud method as its quick and simple, no smoke or smell. Edited November 25, 2015 by Col 1
FloridaCracker Posted November 26, 2015 Posted November 26, 2015 How is a retort the maximum return from the wood when you have to use quite a bit of wood to cook it? I'm assuming that is a round about way of saying a retort produces charcoal that weighs more than if the same wood was put in a TLUD? I have never weighed it and just make it so I don't know. If this is the case then that would mean there is a lot more "stuff" left behind that wasn't cooked off and I imagine would have fairly different properties. Have you tested the charcoal to see which is hotter? That seems like it would be a pretty important piece of information beyond the fact that a retort yields more charcoal. I assume you have used wood from the same source that has the same water content and density? Or maybe I read way too much into your comment? Any info is appreciated as I've never heard this and assumed they are the same. At least I haven't noticed much different in the quality of charcoal from the different methods.
wizard7611 Posted November 26, 2015 Author Posted November 26, 2015 I find the traditional retort method best when you need the absolute maximum return from the wood, you can use cheap or scrap wood to generate the heat. For pine charcoal for stars, sparky wheel drivers etc i prefer the tlud method as its quick and simple, no smoke or smell.I have time bro. How is a retort the maximum return from the wood when you have to use quite a bit of wood to cook it? I'm assuming that is a round about way of saying a retort produces charcoal that weighs more than if the same wood was put in a TLUD? I have never weighed it and just make it so I don't know. If this is the case then that would mean there is a lot more "stuff" left behind that wasn't cooked off and I imagine would have fairly different properties. Have you tested the charcoal to see which is hotter? That seems like it would be a pretty important piece of information beyond the fact that a retort yields more charcoal. I assume you have used wood from the same source that has the same water content and density? Or maybe I read way too much into your comment? Any info is appreciated as I've never heard this and assumed they are the same. At least I haven't noticed much different in the quality of charcoal from the different methods.I'm using Cedar wood. I am wanting nice charcoal for black powder and other uses, but have not tried it yet, which is why I'm here discussing.
starxplor Posted November 26, 2015 Posted November 26, 2015 How is a retort the maximum return from the wood when you have to use quite a bit of wood to cook it? I'm assuming that is a round about way of saying a retort produces charcoal that weighs more than if the same wood was put in a TLUD? I have never weighed it and just make it so I don't know. If this is the case then that would mean there is a lot more "stuff" left behind that wasn't cooked off and I imagine would have fairly different properties. Have you tested the charcoal to see which is hotter? That seems like it would be a pretty important piece of information beyond the fact that a retort yields more charcoal. I assume you have used wood from the same source that has the same water content and density? Or maybe I read way too much into your comment? Any info is appreciated as I've never heard this and assumed they are the same. At least I haven't noticed much different in the quality of charcoal from the different methods. Usually when people say the retort has a higher return, they are assuming you can use any old wood, or even other fuel source like propane. If you can use crappy scrap wood to heat the retort, you can get more charcoal from the great wood you found a limited source of.
Col Posted November 26, 2015 Posted November 26, 2015 Aye, the tlud burns a portion of the wood to produce the charcoal, with low moisture content pellets its about 50% of the starting volume. For something expensive like balsa, its better to use the (cheap) pellets or scrap wood to heat a retort. Unless your using propane, the heat source for the retort will generate a lot more smoke/smell than a tlud which may be a factor for some that make more charcoal for stars etc than for bp.
FloridaCracker Posted November 26, 2015 Posted November 26, 2015 But a TLUD isn't turning to ash and it's the volatiles that you are trying to cook off and get rid of that are burning. If you ignite the smoke coming out of a retort then the wood inside it is also "burning". As long as there is not enough oxygen to turn the charcoal into ash then both systems are converting wood to charcoal. If one charcoal weighs less for the same volume of wood then the charcoal is fundamentally different than the other and must contain significantly less volatiles than the other method, If that is the case then I hope someone has done some testing to see how that effects it's role in BP and pyrotechnics.
Col Posted November 26, 2015 Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) The total volume of (dry) wood in my tlud reduces by 50% during the burn, the required btu`s come from wood in the tlud. The wood inside my retort doesnt reduce in volume as the required btu`s come from an external wood fuelled fire.Lack of oxygen alone wont dehydrate the wood and heat it to 270C so it can begin releasing flammable gas. The moisture content of the wood is an important factor, what could be perceived as a loss of volatile content could be simple water loss.. Edited November 26, 2015 by Col
starxplor Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Another consideration is TLUD vs retort is that a TLUD does very poorly with non-dry material while a retort works perfectly fine, just taking a little extra time to cook off the water. Also, a TLUD has slightly lower allowed variance in when you stop and cap it. Too long and the charcoal burns to ash. A retort on the other hand, can be left in a fire for a slightly longer time beffore any adverse effect, as long as it is capped immediately after removal from the fire. It really comes down to what each individual wants to optimize and in many cases, both methods are used by the same people depending on their current situation.
wizard7611 Posted November 28, 2015 Author Posted November 28, 2015 How do I create a retort in which my charcoal will not turn into ash?
starxplor Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 That depends on what is causing the ash. In general, charcoal needs to burn to become ash. If you allow it to catch on fire, it will turn to ash. This is why it is important to quickly seal it when removing it from the fire. If oxygen(part of the air we breath) gets into a can with very hot walls and very hot charcoal, it can(and often will) catch on fire and burn to ash. Do you have pictures/descriptions of your retort? How about the specifics of the process you are using? 1
wizard7611 Posted November 28, 2015 Author Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) That depends on what is causing the ash. In general, charcoal needs to burn to become ash. If you allow it to catch on fire, it will turn to ash. This is why it is important to quickly seal it when removing it from the fire. If oxygen(part of the air we breath) gets into a can with very hot walls and very hot charcoal, it can(and often will) catch on fire and burn to ash. Do you have pictures/descriptions of your retort? How about the specifics of the process you are using?I was thinking of doing something like this but on a larger scale(5 gallon barrel inside of a 55 gallon oil barrel and both of these are made of steel): http://i.imgur.com/eZpVe5k.jpg Edited November 28, 2015 by wizard7611
Mumbles Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 If you're getting noticeable ash from a retort it probably means 1 of 2 things. Either your vent hole is too large, or you're not sealing it up well enough when the retort is cooling. A trace of ash isn't anything to worry about, but I wouldn't think you'd be asking unless you're getting more than that. 1
wizard7611 Posted November 29, 2015 Author Posted November 29, 2015 If you're getting noticeable ash from a retort it probably means 1 of 2 things. Either your vent hole is too large, or you're not sealing it up well enough when the retort is cooling. A trace of ash isn't anything to worry about, but I wouldn't think you'd be asking unless you're getting more than that. Could I use Red Cedar charcoal for stars or do I need to use Pine?
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