How much of which chemicals?

[OldMarine]

I've been collecting my tooling, knowledge and chemicals. I realize I'll never have enough of the first two but there has to be a figure I can pause at on the third. Except for BP chems I have no idea how much of the others I should keep on hand.

 

My plan is for strobe pots, hand rammed gerbs and other BP based ground effects to start. These involve things such as parlon,saran,pvc and others that I'm not sure of the future uses of. I would hate to buy a pound of one and immediately realize I'll need 20 more to advance a step and conversely I'd hate to have 20 lbs of something lying around unused forever.

Since I do plan on advancing to mines, rockets, shells and mortars eventually I don't mind having excess that can be used for those things later.

I guess my main question is: What is your most basic stock of chems that you go through regularly?

 

 

Admin: I think this should have been posted in Newbie Questions.Sorry.

Edited October 26, 2015 by OldMarine

[marks265]

Its pretty dynamic for me. I may use 10 pounds of something and may not use it again for a year or two. As I try things I may try to keep from spending too much on a specialty chem. They usually cost more and may be harder to get from time to time. Plus they fill up your storage space. This doesn't mean that I don't have about a dozen or so around myself. To best answer your question I think this is something you will find that you will grow into.

 

When it comes to chlorine donors, metals, and fuels or binders such as red gum I will watch for group buys or sell outs. Sometimes a specific lot of a chem will be good or bad, depend how much you buy it could be for better or worse. Specifically the list is hard to discuss because what your goals are and what mine are different so our list of chems will be different. After you make strobe pots and gerbs for a year you may want to move on. This is where having a diverse supply comes in handy.

[mikeee]

All of the formulas give you a ratio which you can convert into quantities of each chemical you will need.

Potassium Nitrate

Charcoal

Sulfur

Potassium Perchlorate

Aluminum

etc.

etc.

[MadMat]

The two chemicals I use the most in order of usage are: 1 potassium nitrate, 2 potassium perchlorate. Next would be color agents and metals. I make my own charcoal and dextrin so, as far as I'm concerned, they are a non-issue as far as purchases.

Edited October 27, 2015 by MadMat

[OldMarine]

Potassium perchlorate seems to be a must have and is cheaper in bulk so I feel comfortable buying that and barium and strontium nitrates as well. What of the chlorine donor class chems? They're probably safe for long term storage but how much would a guy use in a year making stars etc.? Hate to be a pest but I want my ducks in a row before we march to the pond.

[OldMarine]

I guess I'd best lay out a plan for future projects and compile a list of common items among them. I was just kinda hoping there was a generic grocery list I reckon. Hard to curb my enthusiasm sometimes.

[Peret]

Well, look at the proportions used in a typical star - for example, Parlon is usually between 12 and 15%. Then estimate the amount of stars you make in a year, and bingo, you know how much Parlon you need. I'm not a big star maker, I probably made about 8lb of colored stars this year, and curiously enough I used about a 1 pound bag of Parlon.

[Peret]

If you want a generic grocery list, you could do worse than buy for the Veline system. It's not a long list. Then as other formulae take your fancy you can add to your chemistry set as the chance allows. I have a bit of everything, but a lot of it doesn't get used. I have all kinds of exotic chemicals for making blue stars but when it comes down to it, I mostly make Velines with copper oxide.

[OldMarine]

If you want a generic grocery list, you could do worse than buy for the Veline system. It's not a long list. Then as other formulae take your fancy you can add to your chemistry set as the chance allows. I have a bit of everything, but a lot of it doesn't get used. I have all kinds of exotic chemicals for making blue stars but when it comes down to it, I mostly make Velines with copper oxide.

 

Thanks, that may be my starting point. Seems fairly reasonable as far as chem variety goes and most are multi-purpose.

So far I've had to order something new for almost every new project and it's frustrating to wait for delivery sometimes. Keeping these on hand should give me more "funtime" between

orders.

[OldMarine]

After further reading I've found the Veline color formulae was probably the very thing I was asking for. Thanks for y'all's help on this one. I'm not as far from stocked as I thought.

[Seymour]

Other than the chemicals for colours and Black Powder, it is nice to have a medium fineness atomised Aluminium for glitter effects, as well as some silvers.

 

Crackle, Whistle and flash powder are probably best to leave for the future.

 

Parlon, Saran and PVC, along with multiple other more exotic chlorine donors are somewhat interchangeable. By that I mean you can make all colours with only one of them, and while they all work, Parlon is probably the most widely used, both due to performance and availability.

 

There are a lot of variations in ratios of chemicals in colours, but in my opinion the better performing ones are usually (with exceptions, notably blue) high in MgAl, and Parlon (or other chlorine donors). Veline is pretty good, but I would expect that overall you'll be using a bit more of MgAl and Parlon that those formulas suggest.

 

Red gum is largely interchangeable with Resinox, which is becoming widely available in the hobby scene, and in my opinion a superior product. However things like Red Gum, Shellac, Resinox and others all serve the same function, and that is as an organic fuel for coloured compositions. they are to some extent interchangeable, and not used as much as a binder as many beginners think. Basically most people use Dextrin for a binder, though SGRS, Gum Arabic and others are also good water activated binders serving the same purpose.

 

My suggestion is you get Resinox and Dextrin, or make Dextrin, or if it's easier to get for you, Red Gum and Dextrin. Shellac, SGRS and so on are not necessary, even though in certain situations they are superior, you won't suffer without them.

 

Having taken on the Veline system you probably already intend to get Strontium carbonate. Unless you live somewhere with very low humidity I think you'll be far better off getting this instead of the nitrate. However Barium nitrate is far superior to Barium carbonate.

 

I could go on, but I think I'm already repeating what other people have said. Good luck, and have fun

[OldMarine]

Thanks, I'll be bookmarking this thread and several others it's lead me to. I'm aware of the dangers of flash and other death mixes. I work with commercial blasting products and such in my job so I have a healthy respect of such things.

Thank you all for the info and please return to this thread with any other must-haves or multipurpose can't do without chems OR tools!

[Maserface]

I don't really have much to add, but I would recommend you experiment with colors, you might love some in veline and hate others, find out what looks best to you before you put all your eggs in one basket.

 

Personally I like having a quantity of prime ready, and a quantity of standard screen mixed black powder. two things that you never change and always need!

[OldMarine]

Would screen mix be the same as green mix? I assume there's different primes for different things but is their a standard for the items I'm thinking of making? IE basic Veline stars etc

[OldMarine]

I was going to ask that this thread be removed after the answers you provided led me to others that helped in answering my question. Now I think it should remain open because I'm sure other newbies are wondering the same as I and your direction has been invaluable.

[Maserface]

Screen mix and green mix are basically the same, yes. I feel that "screen mixed" is less confusing than "green mix" though.

 

There are different primes that might work better or worse depending on what they are applied to, but generally any of the common "hot primes" are suitable. (Fence post, pinball, monocopa, etc). I personally use fence post.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Maserface

[OldMarine]

Thanks, I'm following a thread on fencepost prime now.

One of my other posts was on how much mill dust to save and some suggested saving some green mix as well. I'm writing it all down but I'm sure I've got several bazillion more questions.Thanks

[schroedinger]

There are a couple chems you need always.

These are:

Pottasium Nitrate (100 kg)

Pottasium Perchlorate (Drum)

Sulfur (25 kg)

Charcoal (Homemade)

Red Gum (5-10 kg)

Parlon/Saran/PVC (5 kg of one or 2 of each)

Aluminium ( 5kg -325 atomized and flake)

Magnalium (5 kg -200)

Barium Nitrate (5-10 kg)

Strontium Nitrate (5 kg)

Bentonite/Kitty litter ( 5 kg bag from next supermarket)

Dextrine (5 kg)

Silicon (1 kg)

All these can be bought in quite big ammounts without anything to worry about. The ammounts in brackets are just some recommendation i would say are reasonable if yiu really wan't to get into this and using normal ammounts where you also get reduced prices.

 

Other things you have to think about are tubes, paper, chipboard, hemis in sufficient ammounts.

[Arthur]

Start the the basic ingredients for BP with a selection of charcoal woods and sizes, add spherical atomised aluminium and probably titanium sponge. You get a good range of effects but no colours.

 

Probably the best thing you can invest in is a good set of bottles, it's scary when supplies come in a thin bag. Big bottles come from body building food suppliments. Organise and label all your supplies.

[ivars21]

This might be helpful for some reference: http://pyrodata.com/chemicals. Lists commonly used chemicals with the occurrence in compositions at the bottom right.

As already mentioned, sulphur, charcoal and potassium nitrate, some aluminium will get you started.

Edited October 27, 2015 by ivars21

[Seymour]

I just want to add that from memory, the veline prime contains dichromate, as do several other primes. While I'm sure it improves performance, it performs perfectly without it, so unless you are mixing Ammonium perchlorate with MgAl or Mg, which is certainly not beginner level compositions, there is no need for dichromates in firework making that I am aware of.

 

You could replace it with a catalyst you already have, such as CuO, or just use no catalyst, since primes just don't need them, even if it may mean you need to use a bit more prime, or in an extreme case, one more step.

 

While I've mostly talked about chemicals for colours, the posters who suggest you stick to BP ingredients, with perhaps atomised Aluminium and Dextrin have a very good point. You may be limited to charcoal streamers, glitter, some silver and white effects, but you can make rockets, fountains, wheels, roman candles, shells and many more. With only a few exceptions you can make every firework type with these few chemicals and add effects such as colours once you have techniques right. While I don't want to say you must do it this way, it certainly is advisable from a safety and cost perspective. It was several years before I moved past KNO3 based pyro.

[Col]

Other items that could make the list ,, nc lacquer, acetone, rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) and possibly denatured alcohol (meths)

[OldMarine]

I'm gonna need a bigger notebook.

[ChrisDeHont]

I'm not sure if you are writing it down, but write it all down!!! Every last line of info you get. Then take that notebook, and back it up some how. We have 23 3 ring binders full of formulas and processes. I just back it all up this year. If we ever had an accident and lost those binders we would be scarew. 90% of the content is our family's formulary.

[OldMarine]

I'm not sure if you are writing it down, but write it all down!!! Every last line of info you get. Then take that notebook, and back it up some how. We have 23 3 ring binders full of formulas and processes. I just back it all up this year. If we ever had an accident and lost those binders we would be scarew. 90% of the content is our family's formulary.

 

I started with a single spiral composition book but have now filled 4 (2 are all on BP) so I'm going to start with 3 ring binders so I can organize pages into categories and such. Being loose would also let me scan them into the pc and therefore the cloud. I like it!