PyroNinjaah Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Hi everyone. So I used to be able to get potassium nitrate that was like 98-99% pure off ebay for about $1.50 per pound. I went to buy more off ebay and now there's not nearly as many on ebay and the ones that are still on ebay are like $5-8 per pound. I searched all over on the internet but it's at least double what I used to get it off ebay for, but except for if I buy it as fertilizer. I found two sites that look good. http://www.haifa-group.com/products/plant_nutrition/multi_k_potassium_nitrate_fertilizer/multi_k_absolute.aspx I don't know if they even sell it individually though. https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/potassium-nitrate/ I don't make a lot of BP so I don't need a 50lb bag because it will last me a few years, but will get one if it's better. Also, does potassium nitrate "go bad"? I was looking on the internet about the whole n-p-k thing but I am confused. What is he purity of it if it's 13-0-64 and if the k stands for potash K2O and the n is regular nitrogen, then is nitrogen and potash,separate, still the same thing as potassium nitrate, kno3? Also, would I have to purify this with the saturated solution method? If anyone knows of a better place to get potassium nitrate or where you get yours, any info is helpful. Thanks for you help in advance. Edited October 24, 2015 by PyroNinjaah
Mumbles Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 I unfortunately think you'll find that potassium nitratate prices have gone up over the last several years. I believe both of those sources will be okay though. I know a lot of people who use Haifa. The common grade used is the Greenhouse Grade (GG). It's what Phil sells (www.Ihaveadotcom.com). http://www.ihaveadotcom.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=72_128 If you go to the bulk sales page (the link) you can get much better deals. He sells both 55lb bags as well as 10lb bulk bags for a good price. NPK ratings are somewhat strange, and somewhat hard to describe. 13.8-0-46.5 is basically 100% pure though for potassium nitrate. A lot of times I'm not sure if they're just rounding to hole numbers, or actually indicative. Most of the stuff I've bought is listed as 13-0-46.
Peret Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Phil is currently selling a 10 pound bag of Haifa for $17.76 - that's the best deal going currently, as far as I'm aware. Shipping will kill you, it costs more than the product. It's always best if you can pick the stuff up yourself. You should join a club if there's one in your area. I usually buy my bulk chems at events like WPA and Do It - I just picked up 20 pounds of perc for $2 a pound, no shipping cost, and that one purchase saved me my year's membership cost.
Maxim Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 I also use fertilizer as the source for KNO3, it costs about 200 rubles per 500 g, thats not so cheap, but its cheaper than shipping it, plus it is very good KNO3, I made my best BP with it.
carbonhalo Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 My fertiliser cost me $30 AU for a 20Kg sack.It doesn't appear to have any noticeable sodium contamination.
PyroNinjaah Posted October 25, 2015 Author Posted October 25, 2015 Unfortunately there's no clubs where I live. I don't think the prices have gone up that quickly, because I bought 6lbs of it just last February for $9 with free shipping off ebay. Phil's site seems like a good one, but the shipping is very high and it's cheaper for me to buy it at dudediesel because their shipping is only $13 and it's just as pure. I would like to buy from kelp4less, the second link, because their price is the same as most places, $18 for 10lb, but they have free shipping. If the NPK rating is truly 13-0-46 then what purity would it be and would I have to purify it? I emailed them asking, but they haven't responded yet. Also, how does one get a bag of the haifa brand? Thanks for all of your help.
MadMat Posted October 25, 2015 Posted October 25, 2015 I have used stump remover in the past. Both Spectracide and Hi Yield stump removers are fairly pure and make good BP. Recently, the price has gone up a little bit, though it's still not real high, i.e. the last container of Hi Yield I bought was $5.00 for 1-1/2 lb.s.
Jakenbake Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 I get my haifa at a local farm supply store.
dynomike1 Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Hi everyone. So I used to be able to get potassium nitrate that was like 98-99% pure off ebay for about $1.50 per pound. I went to buy more off ebay and now there's not nearly as many on ebay and the ones that are still on ebay are like $5-8 per pound. I searched all over on the internet but it's at least double what I used to get it off ebay for, but except for if I buy it as fertilizer. I found two sites that look good. http://www.haifa-group.com/products/plant_nutrition/multi_k_potassium_nitrate_fertilizer/multi_k_absolute.aspx I don't know if they even sell it individually though. https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/potassium-nitrate/ I don't make a lot of BP so I don't need a 50lb bag because it will last me a few years, but will get one if it's better. Also, does potassium nitrate "go bad"? I was looking on the internet about the whole n-p-k thing but I am confused. What is he purity of it if it's 13-0-64 and if the k stands for potash K2O and the n is regular nitrogen, then is nitrogen and potash,separate, still the same thing as potassium nitrate, kno3? Also, would I have to purify this with the saturated solution method? If anyone knows of a better place to get potassium nitrate or where you get yours, any info is helpful. Thanks for you help in advance.13-0-64 That is 13% of 100lbs. 64% of 100lbs. that's the way we figure it to apply. The rest of it is a filler, used to be lime. Edited October 26, 2015 by dynomike1
Col Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 The 13-0-64 signifies 13% N-NO3, 0% P2O5, 64% K2O. For 100% pure KNO3 the first number needs to be 13.86As mumbles stated the number on the bag is rounded up so its best to check the label/spec sheet for the real number. If its13.0%, thats 13/13.86 *100 = 93.795% pure.
Arthur Posted October 26, 2015 Posted October 26, 2015 By whatever route and supplier potassium nitrate in bags is shipped for fertiliser, lab and pyro hobby use will be very small compared with agriculture.
dynomike1 Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 Have you heard anything from California Pyro? He used to have a good price.
PyroNinjaah Posted October 27, 2015 Author Posted October 27, 2015 Who's California Pyro? I haven't heard anything from him. Does he have a website or something?
PyroNinjaah Posted October 31, 2015 Author Posted October 31, 2015 I just got an email back from the kelp4less site. They say it's NPK is actually 13.7-0-46 and that the manufacturer is SQM. I looked at the msds for the potassium nitrate that SQM makes and it says it's purity is >94%. I think that's a good purity, but should I purify it? The most abundant contaminant is sodium nitrate at up to 5%, is that bad because while reading various things on the internet I hear people say that it's good not to have a lot of it in your black powder. Why is that particular chemical bad? They even sent me two pictures of the bag it comes from.
Col Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 sodium nitrate is hygroscopic and it burns yellow. 13.7 is 98.84% so if that is the max and 94% is the min, its plenty good enough.
Mumbles Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 I've used Champion brand before, which was just fine. Champion is now known as SQM. You can still see the dog and champion logo on the bottom left corner of the bag. They're the national nitrate company of Chile. For most instances, you probably wont need to purify it at all. I've never heard of anyone who sourced nitrate from kelp4ess having to at least.
braddsn Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 Potassium Nitrate from Kelp4less is all that I use. Awesome product. 1.89 per lb free shipping, can't beat it.
memo Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 you can always make your own . all you need is a ton of bat shit or chicken shit and a little time you can end up with a 100lbs of potasium nitrate http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?27718-Making-blackpowder-from-chicken-litter&s=ff51ada4c8f955fdbdaccb720c7e68fe memo
Arthur Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 IMO all nitrates are synthesised from atmospheric nitrogen and hydrogen then reacted with oxygen. It's a process using almost exclusively energy (electricity) so as the wholesale price of electricity rises so will the cost of nitrate. Yes it's possible to extract soluble nitrates from composting organics, and this is how nitrates were produced in medieval times, but the heyday of military BP used nitrates from Chile and India.
taiwanluthiers Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I think the Haber process is the reason population growth was so rapid in the 20th century. Before that the only way to get nitrogen into plants was to use animal manure but it wasn't possible to get good yields since there's only so much nitrogen. It also allowed Germany to make explosives easily, since they couldn't get Chilean saltpeter easily.
Nickmaslo Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I just ordered a 50lb box from Phil's General Store. It's better that GG grade, it's Technical Grade Hiafa. The price, purity, and quality pound for pound is unbeatable. Shipping is about 39$ for me (South Florida) so it brings up the price to about $2.20/LB shipping and tax included. Amazing. Ordered it last Wednesday. Shipping says its on the truck for delivery to my house today. http://www.ihaveadotcom.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=72_128&products_id=492
Recommended Posts